Lombardi always brought Ben Agajanian in when his place kickers struggled,which was often until Don Chandler showed up in 1965. My brothers and I would bet how soon Lee Remmel would announce in the Press-Gazette that Ben Agajanian was back in town again to work with the kicker. In 1964, Hornung went 13 for 38 in field goal attempts, and even missed a few PATs.
Good podcast with Bob, but again a little harsh (which he admitted).
How can you say Matt LaFleur is 0-5 in elimination games?? If you only count the games they lost then of course they're winless.
If Detroit at the end of 2022 was an elimination game, weren't Chicago and Minnesota this season also elimination games? What about Dallas? Gees.
Your basic premise was that the Packers were the better team, they should have won the game. But weren't the 49ers the better team in the 4th quarter?
They went right down the field, made play after play, one a diving catch on 3rd and long. Packers shaky D reared it's ugly head. Carlson missed a FG; he was a below average kicker all year. Love threw 2 INTs, which was unusual for the last month, but not shocking for a 1st year starter.
SF was the better team overall. They made plays in the last 20 minutes and the Packers didn't.
This is very different game than, say, the 2014 playoff loss to Seattle, where many unforced errors caused the better team to lose.
(DB with a INT just decides to go down instead of running for a probable pick 6; fake FG for a TD; botched onside kick reception).
The SF loss this year was more similar to the Packers loss to TB in the 2021 NFC Championship or the SF loss in the playoffs 2 years ago where the teams ultimately were very even and the Packer's QB was not quite good enough or made a big mistake at the end to lose.
Detroit in the 2022 regular season was just a better team, that is also not a similar type of loss.
The Rodger's losses on recent years were worse because that team was Super Bowl caliber and knew it, but never brought their A game; we all saw the SB window under Rodgers closing.
This year I would say this Packers team was really not Super Bowl caliber. They had a good run. But BARELY Beat Carolina less than a month earlier. Lost to a bad Giant team with a terrible QB. This wasn't a Super Bowl team, they beat 2 mediocre teams to make the playoffs and then did look like a SB team in whipping Dallas. But one game does not a Super Bowl team make. They overachieved and COULD have won this game, but I won't say they SHOULD have won it or were the better team. THey weren't. They got outplayed in the 4th quarter by the better team. It wasn't a fluke or multiple flukes that cost them the game. The 2023 Packers overachieved and the season should end with a lot more optimism than frustration and regret. Looking forward to 2024. And more glad than ever that we moved on from Rodgers to Love.
p.s. The Nixon INT can't be called a DROP. It was tipped which made it change direction unexpectedly, so he didn't even get his hands on it. You can see he totally misjudged where the ball would go, which was caused by the deflection by the WR.
Yeoman's work all the coverage of this past weekend Tyler, with three teams near and dear to Go Long readers (Packers, Bill and Lions) all playing and plenty of great content on all of them. Well done, get some rest.
I was a little off on Hornung’s 1964 place kicking stats. He went 12 for 38 (31.6%) in FGs and miss two of 43 extra point attempts, quite a feat considering that he was kicking within 12 yards of the goalposts. Green Bay went 8-5-1 in 1964, and lost a three or four games by 3 points or less.
Haven't listened to the podcast yet, but I will. Yeah, they played great and could have (maybe should have?) beaten SF. Would have had Probably 60% chance to beat Detroit even in their stadium. I don't have a ton of confidence that they would beat Baltimore in the SB.
But, Ultimately, this team was still flawed in the last 2 months. BARELY beat Carolina, a terrible team. The D gelled after that game when MLF said he'd get more involved (I wonder what the heck he did??). Ultimately, I can't let the loss gnaw at me as the last few playoff losses with Rodgers did and I saw his time waning away. No, this is a new dawn. I think the 2 playoff games helped this team immensely for the coming seasons. The players KNOW that playoff feeling, they know the hype, the way the game is conducted, the level of play, the difference in reffing. It will help them a lot. I'm thankful they got this far more than agonizing over the loss.
One last question for Bob: Do you still think Brian Gutekunst & Matt LaFleur are average? (Which you said just a few short weeks ago). The turnaround this season from being a BAD team with a 1st year QB to a team that you said in this podcast Could have gotten to the Super Bowl is the most amazing in-season turnaround I've seen in my 50 years as a Packers fan. I think MLF is a candidate for coach of the year (along with Houston's coach). And after 2 "all in" years, this was a rebuilding year, $40M in dead money, the remaining highest paid player on the team missed all but the 1st game. And still this team had the talent to compete and win; the quickest reloading of talent I've ever seen (INCLUDING at the QB position). How can Gutey not also be a candidate for NFL Executive of the Year.
Average? AVERAGE? (In my best Jim Mora voice).
I say they are well above average and we're lucky to have both.
In defense of Bob McGinn’s definition of average, he said average is some good and some not so good decisions. His average is not your average or my average. To him, it means a little bit of good and bad, about in the middle of what is expected of NFL GMs and head coaches. MLF has been anything but average in the playoffs, when the real season starts. He’s been bad. Can’t seem to get his Packers to advance to the SB when advancing is most needed. There comes a time when doubt arrives within the players, for MLF or anyone else. There are coaches who can get their clubs to the finish line first, and MLF, to date, is not one of them.
My "average" means in the middle. Maybe 10th - 20th ranked out of 32 teams. Not top 10 but not bottom 10. I hear a lot of people clamoring that MLF should have been NFL coach of the year, or at least one of the finalists (top 5). Doesn't sound like average to me.
Lombardi always brought Ben Agajanian in when his place kickers struggled,which was often until Don Chandler showed up in 1965. My brothers and I would bet how soon Lee Remmel would announce in the Press-Gazette that Ben Agajanian was back in town again to work with the kicker. In 1964, Hornung went 13 for 38 in field goal attempts, and even missed a few PATs.
FYI, Packers have 147,000 on the season ticket waiting list. I've been on since 1998 and am still like 17,000. https://www.fox6now.com/news/green-bay-packers-ticket-waitlist
Good podcast with Bob, but again a little harsh (which he admitted).
How can you say Matt LaFleur is 0-5 in elimination games?? If you only count the games they lost then of course they're winless.
If Detroit at the end of 2022 was an elimination game, weren't Chicago and Minnesota this season also elimination games? What about Dallas? Gees.
Your basic premise was that the Packers were the better team, they should have won the game. But weren't the 49ers the better team in the 4th quarter?
They went right down the field, made play after play, one a diving catch on 3rd and long. Packers shaky D reared it's ugly head. Carlson missed a FG; he was a below average kicker all year. Love threw 2 INTs, which was unusual for the last month, but not shocking for a 1st year starter.
SF was the better team overall. They made plays in the last 20 minutes and the Packers didn't.
This is very different game than, say, the 2014 playoff loss to Seattle, where many unforced errors caused the better team to lose.
(DB with a INT just decides to go down instead of running for a probable pick 6; fake FG for a TD; botched onside kick reception).
The SF loss this year was more similar to the Packers loss to TB in the 2021 NFC Championship or the SF loss in the playoffs 2 years ago where the teams ultimately were very even and the Packer's QB was not quite good enough or made a big mistake at the end to lose.
Detroit in the 2022 regular season was just a better team, that is also not a similar type of loss.
The Rodger's losses on recent years were worse because that team was Super Bowl caliber and knew it, but never brought their A game; we all saw the SB window under Rodgers closing.
This year I would say this Packers team was really not Super Bowl caliber. They had a good run. But BARELY Beat Carolina less than a month earlier. Lost to a bad Giant team with a terrible QB. This wasn't a Super Bowl team, they beat 2 mediocre teams to make the playoffs and then did look like a SB team in whipping Dallas. But one game does not a Super Bowl team make. They overachieved and COULD have won this game, but I won't say they SHOULD have won it or were the better team. THey weren't. They got outplayed in the 4th quarter by the better team. It wasn't a fluke or multiple flukes that cost them the game. The 2023 Packers overachieved and the season should end with a lot more optimism than frustration and regret. Looking forward to 2024. And more glad than ever that we moved on from Rodgers to Love.
p.s. The Nixon INT can't be called a DROP. It was tipped which made it change direction unexpectedly, so he didn't even get his hands on it. You can see he totally misjudged where the ball would go, which was caused by the deflection by the WR.
Yeoman's work all the coverage of this past weekend Tyler, with three teams near and dear to Go Long readers (Packers, Bill and Lions) all playing and plenty of great content on all of them. Well done, get some rest.
I was rooting for “The Go Long Bowl” between Green Bay and Buffalo
I was a little off on Hornung’s 1964 place kicking stats. He went 12 for 38 (31.6%) in FGs and miss two of 43 extra point attempts, quite a feat considering that he was kicking within 12 yards of the goalposts. Green Bay went 8-5-1 in 1964, and lost a three or four games by 3 points or less.
Haven't listened to the podcast yet, but I will. Yeah, they played great and could have (maybe should have?) beaten SF. Would have had Probably 60% chance to beat Detroit even in their stadium. I don't have a ton of confidence that they would beat Baltimore in the SB.
But, Ultimately, this team was still flawed in the last 2 months. BARELY beat Carolina, a terrible team. The D gelled after that game when MLF said he'd get more involved (I wonder what the heck he did??). Ultimately, I can't let the loss gnaw at me as the last few playoff losses with Rodgers did and I saw his time waning away. No, this is a new dawn. I think the 2 playoff games helped this team immensely for the coming seasons. The players KNOW that playoff feeling, they know the hype, the way the game is conducted, the level of play, the difference in reffing. It will help them a lot. I'm thankful they got this far more than agonizing over the loss.
One last question for Bob: Do you still think Brian Gutekunst & Matt LaFleur are average? (Which you said just a few short weeks ago). The turnaround this season from being a BAD team with a 1st year QB to a team that you said in this podcast Could have gotten to the Super Bowl is the most amazing in-season turnaround I've seen in my 50 years as a Packers fan. I think MLF is a candidate for coach of the year (along with Houston's coach). And after 2 "all in" years, this was a rebuilding year, $40M in dead money, the remaining highest paid player on the team missed all but the 1st game. And still this team had the talent to compete and win; the quickest reloading of talent I've ever seen (INCLUDING at the QB position). How can Gutey not also be a candidate for NFL Executive of the Year.
Average? AVERAGE? (In my best Jim Mora voice).
I say they are well above average and we're lucky to have both.
In defense of Bob McGinn’s definition of average, he said average is some good and some not so good decisions. His average is not your average or my average. To him, it means a little bit of good and bad, about in the middle of what is expected of NFL GMs and head coaches. MLF has been anything but average in the playoffs, when the real season starts. He’s been bad. Can’t seem to get his Packers to advance to the SB when advancing is most needed. There comes a time when doubt arrives within the players, for MLF or anyone else. There are coaches who can get their clubs to the finish line first, and MLF, to date, is not one of them.
My "average" means in the middle. Maybe 10th - 20th ranked out of 32 teams. Not top 10 but not bottom 10. I hear a lot of people clamoring that MLF should have been NFL coach of the year, or at least one of the finalists (top 5). Doesn't sound like average to me.