Another outstanding episode. These are just so good.
Also remember Bob's season end recaps at the Journal Sentinel. Of all the great stuff he wrote, those were truly some of the best. Definitive analysis of the season. Still have some of them saved, they were so good.
Can't help but wonder if the injuries affected Love quite a bit this season, first physically, and possibly in just not getting into a rhythm and also not running much.
Cracked up at Bob's little bit of extra emphasis when he says "sh!t-canned"
Glad Tyler brought up Jeff Hafley. Kind of feel like some of the talk about him has taken on mythological proportions. The D did some good stuff and largely handled lesser teams, but also didn't put up much fight against better teams. Joe Barry was skewered so much that many forgot/ignored that he had some good moments too, including the D having some excellent games down the stretch last year against Chiefs, Lions and Cowboys.
How come the Rams can hit on so many defensive front draft picks and the Packers can't? Rhetorical question, but hopefully the team is pondering it.
The sour taste from the last three games is influencing a lot of frustration at the moment. Before the 2nd Minnesota game, think most would've been satisfied at the team's direction, but that finish was ugly. Felt like a team that ran out of gas, which is of course unacceptable. Lot of interesting comments came from LaFleur's year-end press conference, so will be very interesting to see where things go.
Great episode - as always. With the Packers, it’s pretty clear this a hinge moment for the organization with Ed Policy about to take over and inevitably consider changes to the org structure.
Anyway, you slice it, this was a really, really bad year for Matt Lafleur. His offense got worse, not better as the year progressed and his QB didn’t progress in production (he may be better because of the experience, we shall see.) what is most concerning is that when responding to adversity with scrutiny on the operation, things didn’t improve. That’s a very bad sign …
BUT … he’s earned the right to come back and right this ship. Whether it’s play calling, his coaching staff or the culture he will never be more empowered and incentivized to right the ship and do things his way than now. He made a transformative move with Hafley and can build on that.
2025 is Jordan Love’s 3rd year starting and he should be much better. The Packers can trim the fat on the youth movement now that they know what they have (especially the WR group.) Gutekunst is in the same exact boat - he’s been a pretty good GM but won’t win a Super Bowl unless he gets better.
This is the moment for LaFleur (and I’d argue - also for Gutekunst.) 2025 is the year to meet expectations - if not, then Ed Policy needs to lead the reboot.
It doesn't change his point, but I think Bob overlooked Bud Grant's first Super Bowl appearance as the last champion of the pre-merger NFL. Regarding Bob's memory, Bart Starr was knocked out of the game trying to make the tackle on Shinnick's interception. Zeke Bratkowski quarterbacked almost the entire game.
Chris. There are highlights of that epic sudden death playoff game vs. Baltimore played I believe on the day after Christmas, 1965. There’s the link I’m dropping here and there’s another version set to music only. After the game, Lou Michaels, who missed a long field goal in overtime, snapped the Chandler’s game-tying field goal was “wide by three feet and you can print that.” In the Packers version of that game, Ray Scott, the Packers CBS play-by-play guy, said Chandler’s kicked “curved between the uprights.”
The NFL extended the height of the uprights the following season.
Lenny Lyles separated Packers TE Bill Anderson from the ball on the Packers first offensive play in the 1965 Western Conference playoff game. Shinnick didn’t intercept the ball, he scooped it up and rumbled down the eastern sideline toward the north end zone and scored.
I don't know if that stat about coaches in year 7 on is that earth shattering. Obviously it's only 5 coaches if you count winning their first super bowl (Lombardi, Noll, Walsh, Parcels, and Belichick all won additional super bowls in year 7+) and only 35 coaches have won super bowls. 14% of super bowl winning coaches won their first super bowl in year 7+ with their team.
There are also few coaches who have at win in the regular season at a .600+ clip and fail to win a super bowl in the first seven years. The ones who have in the super bowl era? Madden, LaFleur, Dungy, Sean McDermott, Reid, Martz, Cowher, Bud Grant, Marty Schottenheimer, Landry. 5 of the 10 coaches ended up winning the super bowl, 3 never hoisted the Lombardi, and 2 are still actively coaching.
Had the Super Bowl existed during Lombardi’s 9-year Green Bay reign, he would have won five beginning in his third year (1961). You can’t tax Lombardi for not winning a Super Bowl until his eighth season because the Super Bowl didn’t exist for his first seven years in Green Bay.
Bob says 'final score matters". Score should have been 29-10.
WHAT?!? No mention of the OPENING KICKOFF in this discussion? At a minimum the score should have been 15-10, that first TD was a gift that shouldn't have happened. For 2 reasons, it should have been a helmet-to-helmet hit penalty AND the fact that the Packers actually recovered the fumble.
Remember, it was 16-10 in the 4th quarter and without the freebie TD at the beginning, the score would have been 10-9 IN THE 4TH QUARTER.
And yes, I have the benefit of knowing the Eagles won the SB. But they WERE GOOD. Packers D deserved credit for holding their offense in check.
UPDATE: You did mention the Opening Kickoff debacle later. But no details about the TWO reasons the Packers should have had the ball. No, the Packers did NOT collapse due to this play. THey were just down 7-0 3 minutes into the game against a slightly better team on the road. THey didn't give up, but it reduced their chances of winning from (my opinion) 50% to 20%. It was HUGE. Probably did have a psychological effect.
You overplayed "the Packers didn't beat anyone" card. No, they didn't beat DET, MIN, Philly. They beat the Texans who had won 3 straight. They beat Miami who had won 3 straight and were playing very good ball after Tua came back. Don't blow those wins off.
Hindsight also tells us the Lions were overrated and not the team you both thought. Paper Lions. Vikes will come back to Earth next year, it will be Packers & Lions for the division with Loves play determining where the Packers land.
Just wanted to say PEACE OUT to Bob.
I have followed you for probably 30 years, was an avid reader of every article in the MJS days. Followed you to all organizations the last 5+ years, your own gig, the Athletic and here. But now that you are not covering the Packers full time and really more focused on the Lions, I found that I did not listen to the podcasts or read the articles this year. So I am out. It's ironic that you thought the Packers were favorites to win the SB this past season, over the years was always a notch more optimistic and considered you a notch less optimistic (a bit harsher) about the Pack. This year I figured about 11 wins, solidifying their status as a solid playoff team for years to come and putting themselves in position to be a SB contender in 2025. That sort of happened, although Love's lack of progression has not given me high confidence they'll be SB contenders in 2025. But I think it is a possibility. I did not expect nor thought for any moment they were SB contenders this past season, I think they would have won 1 playoff game except for a bad luck seeding.
Minnesota needs to spend FA dollars on Center and two guards. They should target RB, CB and DT with their rich bounty of four draft picks, assuming they get a compensatory for Kirk Cousins. The Vikings traded up seven spots in the 2024 draft to take OLB Dallas Turner at 17. Kwesi Adolfo-Mensah was fleeced (again) to move up to 17 from 24 (seven spots, for those of you keeping track at home) sending 2025 picks in the second, third and fourth round to Jacksonville for that privilege. The Vikings passed on Jerad Verse, drafted by the Rams at 19. He was that fast giant dude diving into the end zone after scooping a Darnold fumble Monday night. Pro Football Focus has named Verse NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year. Adolfo-Mensah has been excellent at identifying and signing free agents during his three years as GM. He’s been horrifying at drafting players, and there’s ample evidence that among his General Manager peers, Adolfo-Mensah is known as a overpaying sucker on draft day.
Another outstanding episode. These are just so good.
Also remember Bob's season end recaps at the Journal Sentinel. Of all the great stuff he wrote, those were truly some of the best. Definitive analysis of the season. Still have some of them saved, they were so good.
Can't help but wonder if the injuries affected Love quite a bit this season, first physically, and possibly in just not getting into a rhythm and also not running much.
Cracked up at Bob's little bit of extra emphasis when he says "sh!t-canned"
Glad Tyler brought up Jeff Hafley. Kind of feel like some of the talk about him has taken on mythological proportions. The D did some good stuff and largely handled lesser teams, but also didn't put up much fight against better teams. Joe Barry was skewered so much that many forgot/ignored that he had some good moments too, including the D having some excellent games down the stretch last year against Chiefs, Lions and Cowboys.
How come the Rams can hit on so many defensive front draft picks and the Packers can't? Rhetorical question, but hopefully the team is pondering it.
The sour taste from the last three games is influencing a lot of frustration at the moment. Before the 2nd Minnesota game, think most would've been satisfied at the team's direction, but that finish was ugly. Felt like a team that ran out of gas, which is of course unacceptable. Lot of interesting comments came from LaFleur's year-end press conference, so will be very interesting to see where things go.
Lafleur, Gute, Love - are all on hot seat in 2025.
Counting on Ed Policy to just be an administrator will be a mistake.
Bold moves are needed for Titletown.
If Maxx Crosby takes 2 number 1 picks- Do you want Maxx or Van Ness & Jordan Morgan?
Great episode - as always. With the Packers, it’s pretty clear this a hinge moment for the organization with Ed Policy about to take over and inevitably consider changes to the org structure.
Anyway, you slice it, this was a really, really bad year for Matt Lafleur. His offense got worse, not better as the year progressed and his QB didn’t progress in production (he may be better because of the experience, we shall see.) what is most concerning is that when responding to adversity with scrutiny on the operation, things didn’t improve. That’s a very bad sign …
BUT … he’s earned the right to come back and right this ship. Whether it’s play calling, his coaching staff or the culture he will never be more empowered and incentivized to right the ship and do things his way than now. He made a transformative move with Hafley and can build on that.
2025 is Jordan Love’s 3rd year starting and he should be much better. The Packers can trim the fat on the youth movement now that they know what they have (especially the WR group.) Gutekunst is in the same exact boat - he’s been a pretty good GM but won’t win a Super Bowl unless he gets better.
This is the moment for LaFleur (and I’d argue - also for Gutekunst.) 2025 is the year to meet expectations - if not, then Ed Policy needs to lead the reboot.
It doesn't change his point, but I think Bob overlooked Bud Grant's first Super Bowl appearance as the last champion of the pre-merger NFL. Regarding Bob's memory, Bart Starr was knocked out of the game trying to make the tackle on Shinnick's interception. Zeke Bratkowski quarterbacked almost the entire game.
Chris. There are highlights of that epic sudden death playoff game vs. Baltimore played I believe on the day after Christmas, 1965. There’s the link I’m dropping here and there’s another version set to music only. After the game, Lou Michaels, who missed a long field goal in overtime, snapped the Chandler’s game-tying field goal was “wide by three feet and you can print that.” In the Packers version of that game, Ray Scott, the Packers CBS play-by-play guy, said Chandler’s kicked “curved between the uprights.”
The NFL extended the height of the uprights the following season.
Here’s the YouTube link: https://youtu.be/BdQ7pKYNvdE
Lou Michaels had another rough game in Super Bowl III.
Lenny Lyles separated Packers TE Bill Anderson from the ball on the Packers first offensive play in the 1965 Western Conference playoff game. Shinnick didn’t intercept the ball, he scooped it up and rumbled down the eastern sideline toward the north end zone and scored.
I don't know if that stat about coaches in year 7 on is that earth shattering. Obviously it's only 5 coaches if you count winning their first super bowl (Lombardi, Noll, Walsh, Parcels, and Belichick all won additional super bowls in year 7+) and only 35 coaches have won super bowls. 14% of super bowl winning coaches won their first super bowl in year 7+ with their team.
There are also few coaches who have at win in the regular season at a .600+ clip and fail to win a super bowl in the first seven years. The ones who have in the super bowl era? Madden, LaFleur, Dungy, Sean McDermott, Reid, Martz, Cowher, Bud Grant, Marty Schottenheimer, Landry. 5 of the 10 coaches ended up winning the super bowl, 3 never hoisted the Lombardi, and 2 are still actively coaching.
Had the Super Bowl existed during Lombardi’s 9-year Green Bay reign, he would have won five beginning in his third year (1961). You can’t tax Lombardi for not winning a Super Bowl until his eighth season because the Super Bowl didn’t exist for his first seven years in Green Bay.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I put him on a list winning multiple super bowls in season 7+.
Bob says 'final score matters". Score should have been 29-10.
WHAT?!? No mention of the OPENING KICKOFF in this discussion? At a minimum the score should have been 15-10, that first TD was a gift that shouldn't have happened. For 2 reasons, it should have been a helmet-to-helmet hit penalty AND the fact that the Packers actually recovered the fumble.
Remember, it was 16-10 in the 4th quarter and without the freebie TD at the beginning, the score would have been 10-9 IN THE 4TH QUARTER.
And yes, I have the benefit of knowing the Eagles won the SB. But they WERE GOOD. Packers D deserved credit for holding their offense in check.
UPDATE: You did mention the Opening Kickoff debacle later. But no details about the TWO reasons the Packers should have had the ball. No, the Packers did NOT collapse due to this play. THey were just down 7-0 3 minutes into the game against a slightly better team on the road. THey didn't give up, but it reduced their chances of winning from (my opinion) 50% to 20%. It was HUGE. Probably did have a psychological effect.
You overplayed "the Packers didn't beat anyone" card. No, they didn't beat DET, MIN, Philly. They beat the Texans who had won 3 straight. They beat Miami who had won 3 straight and were playing very good ball after Tua came back. Don't blow those wins off.
Hindsight also tells us the Lions were overrated and not the team you both thought. Paper Lions. Vikes will come back to Earth next year, it will be Packers & Lions for the division with Loves play determining where the Packers land.
Just wanted to say PEACE OUT to Bob.
I have followed you for probably 30 years, was an avid reader of every article in the MJS days. Followed you to all organizations the last 5+ years, your own gig, the Athletic and here. But now that you are not covering the Packers full time and really more focused on the Lions, I found that I did not listen to the podcasts or read the articles this year. So I am out. It's ironic that you thought the Packers were favorites to win the SB this past season, over the years was always a notch more optimistic and considered you a notch less optimistic (a bit harsher) about the Pack. This year I figured about 11 wins, solidifying their status as a solid playoff team for years to come and putting themselves in position to be a SB contender in 2025. That sort of happened, although Love's lack of progression has not given me high confidence they'll be SB contenders in 2025. But I think it is a possibility. I did not expect nor thought for any moment they were SB contenders this past season, I think they would have won 1 playoff game except for a bad luck seeding.
Take care.
PF
Another great season guys! Thanks a lot from one of your homies!
Minnesota needs to spend FA dollars on Center and two guards. They should target RB, CB and DT with their rich bounty of four draft picks, assuming they get a compensatory for Kirk Cousins. The Vikings traded up seven spots in the 2024 draft to take OLB Dallas Turner at 17. Kwesi Adolfo-Mensah was fleeced (again) to move up to 17 from 24 (seven spots, for those of you keeping track at home) sending 2025 picks in the second, third and fourth round to Jacksonville for that privilege. The Vikings passed on Jerad Verse, drafted by the Rams at 19. He was that fast giant dude diving into the end zone after scooping a Darnold fumble Monday night. Pro Football Focus has named Verse NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year. Adolfo-Mensah has been excellent at identifying and signing free agents during his three years as GM. He’s been horrifying at drafting players, and there’s ample evidence that among his General Manager peers, Adolfo-Mensah is known as a overpaying sucker on draft day.