'Give him the keys!' HOF'er LeRoy Butler on Jordan Love, The Packer Way and why Aaron Rodgers enjoys a 'John Elway' 2025 sendoff with Steelers

Transcript of our latest Go Long Pod is inside. An entertaining, insightful conversation with longtime Packers safety LeRoy Butler.

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Aaron Rodgers will be signing with the Pittsburgh Steelers any day.

Right?

The four-time MVP is in the headlines again so, naturally, that’s where this conversation with Hall of Fame safety LeRoy Butler heads. Always a joy to talk football with one of the franchise’s greatest players ever. The full audio/video is available here.

GL Pod: LeRoy Butler sees Aaron Rodgers winning a Super Bowl with the Pittsburgh Steelers...

If the words are preferred, the conversation is also transcribed below. Picked it up about 15-20 minutes in.

Butler explains why he believes Rodgers can lead the Steelers to a Super Bowl title. (Seriously.) And we also get into everything Jordan Love. Wondering how this Packers offense takes a step? It’s simple to Butler. He says head coach Matt LaFleur must hand those keys to the offense over to his quarterback. This will mark Jordan Love’s sixth year in the NFL and his third year as the starter.

If LaFleur does trust his QB? He expects Love to stay in the MVP race.

Steelers fans out there will also be quite encouraged by Butler’s bold prognostications. See why Butler believes Rodgers can “go off into the sunset like John Elway.”

By the end of our hour and a half chat, here’s what the Hall of Famer said: “I think we solved the Aaron Rodgers problem. I think we solved it for the entire world. If you don’t get 100,000 new subscribers off this something, somebody’s sleeping.”

Amen, LeRoy!

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Dunne: How is the city of Green Bay going to pull this off? Population 105,000. Last year in Detroit there were 775,000 people that attended the 2024 draft. So is there infrastructure to host this thing? Hey, you have to give it up to Mark Murphy. He pulled it off. He got the draft to Green Bay, Wisc. An incredible run as the de facto owner. He is more than just a president and CEO. Basically turned that side of Green Bay into its own town. I can remember when it was just a Kmart and a Subway, that was it. Vacant parking lots.

Butler: Remember DARE was there taking donations. Moms against Drunk Driving. I remember the other side of Titletown, all dirt. Next thing you know, wait a minute, it’s a hotel over there. Kohler Lodge? Oh that’s Hinterland. Wait, they got a medical facility over there for Bellin and next thing you know Titletown is like Silicon Valley dropped inside of Green Bay. I’m glad you brought up Murphy because his leadership is truly amazing. And the thing about Murphy is — because he was a player — he understands players. And he understands that you don’t always have to agree with us. You could disagree. They don’t tell you what to say and what not to say. His legacy though is Super Bowl 45. And then Aaron Rodgers stuff. They did it a little unconventional. So Murphy hired LaFleur and Gutekunst runs football operations. So it’s a little bit different. With Ron Wolf, it was all football operation. And Bob Harlan, who’s the GOAT — “you run that and I’ll run all the other stuff with the executive board.” Well one of (Murphy’s) goals was “If I can get the draft,” not only would that cement his legacy, I think what him and his wife have done is truly amazing. Because it would’ve been hard for anybody to fill Bob Harlan’s shoes because like I said, he’s the GOAT.

But Murphy came in and, filling Bob Harlan’s shoes, “I’ll just bring my own shoes and I’ll take the blame if we aren’t successful. I’m alright with that. But I also want the economically… maneuver through the pandemic… and I’m going to get you a quarterback before I leave. Because in 2020? “Wait a minute, how long can Aaron play? I don’t know, man. I don’t know how long he could play.” You know what, Gutekunst, shout out to Gutekunst, he woke up one day and said, “You know what? I don’t want to be like some of these other teams scrambling around for a quarterback. I’m going to get one when we don’t need it.” It may not be popular for you. And yes, I’m not going to the Power 5 schools. Utah State. We like this guy. Oh my God, why didn’t you get a receiver? What are they doing up there? The fans were going crazy.

We drafted Love and Love is so exciting with his family. His mom is platinum. Rest in peace to his Dad. And Gutekunst, I think he saved our franchise. What if he did go get a receiver? And Aaron Rodgers goes back into the darkness, he comes out and we don’t have anybody? That’s why this regime is truly amazing. So Ed Policy, our new president, he’s a lawyer. But he is a great guy, very approachable, understands the mission and I just love the guy. He likes to talk. He could talk business, football, family. He always asks about my family. The guy’s great. So we’re in good shape in Green Bay. So to your question, how are we going to pull it off, Tyler? We’re going to be Green Bay. Because we know everybody’s not going to stay there. But whether or not America knows this or not — every home game we got 90,000 people in that city. You can go to Milwaukee. We’re going to be working with some of the chambers to let people know where to get food from and all that kind of stuff. Hang out. You got Appleton. I mean you got all these nice cities on the way up to Green Bay. You can go to Madison.

Dunne: Door County, get up to Door County.

Butler: Door County! Oh my God. So that’s how we’re going to do it. We are all going to be a collective effort in a state where people can live, party and have fun. You can come in. Party and then you can drive to some small town and we got houses that people can get just like you can rent houses and stuff like that of that nature. So we put a lot of thought into it and we’re going to have to close some streets. The NFL takes over now. This is their baby. The favorite child is the Super Bowl, but this is their baby. The draft. So the infrastructure. Using some local businesses and letting everybody make some of this money, we’re excited.

Dunne: I just pulled it up, hotels.com, the Hotel J Green Bay in Ashwaubenon that Thursday night, you can get a hotel room for $999. Or you slide on over to the Extended Stay Airport Ashwaubenon, that’s $999. Motel 6, right? $630. There are a few $400 hotel rooms in Appleton. Hey, there’s one in De Pere for $827. You know what though? Go to LeRoy’s house. He’ll bring you in.

Butler: We’re not leasing anything out! No, no, no!

Dunne: There’s a lot to hit on there. First, on the draft itself. It’s great for all these markets. Green Bay has been preparing for this. It’s definitely part of Mark Murphy’s legacy. I just miss Radio City Music Hall and Philadelphia Eagles fans losing their minds over the Donovan McNabb pick. Give me a small group of fans screaming their lungs out. The pomp and circumstance, I can do without. It’s ridiculous. It’s just a draft. They’re just selected players but it’s so NFL. Everything’s got to be above and beyond.

Butler: When I got drafted, it was like one day I think.

Dunne: You found out in the newspaper the next day that you got drafted.

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Butler: Exactly. It’s like Wednesday. “Did I get drafted?!” Man, it’s an event. Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Huge. But again, we’ve been preparing for it. They’re starting to build stuff and we’re excited. The NFL Experience. We have the Lambeau Leap there so kids can do it, after they sign a waiver. You have a chance to showcase.

So it’s a lot of pressure on us to get that 23rd pick right. When you’re hosting — I’ve done the pick three or four times. I was in Kansas City and I drafted Jayden Reed and Tucker Kraft and I remember going out there — you get the pick early because it’s a delay. I see Jayden Reed on it. I got so excited. You don’t know what you’re going to say but it just makes sure you pronounce the name right. So I go out there and I said, “Jordan Love, we got some help for you.” We always get receivers in the second round that are very good. Jayden Reed. So I have a connection with him.

But the 23rd pick, I’m trying to trade this pick and get me a receiver. The last two years, the Packers have been the youngest team in the league. I don’t know if they meant to do it or tried to do it, but they have been. McManus is the kicker moving forward. Had we had him at the beginning, maybe things would’ve been different. Maybe we would’ve won two or three more games. But that 23rd pick, I look to move that pick and maybe with another player to see if George Pickens wants to come out of Pittsburgh or Garrett Wilson wants to leave New York. Get these guys on their fifth-year option and sign ‘em to an extension and put these guys in position to just take over. You’ve got the youngest team to league and you still made the playoffs. But you can still see there's a little daylight between the Packers and Philly.

You’re a big-time journalist. Do you think teams are still falling in love with picks? I know back in the 90s, you want as many picks as possible. Do you think teams now are willing to trade picks to move up or for a player?

Dunne: I think it’s been a fine spring for Brian Gutekunst and the Packers, but they’ve got a Super Bowl window here contractually with the way things are set up, even after paying Jordan Love. You’ve got an opportunity to go for it. You should. I’m with you. Trade a pick. Trade a future pick. Get a veteran. Get somebody who’s proven. Get even an A-minus, B-plus talent on either side of the ball. It seems like a very, very sound, solid roster 1 through 53 that’s lacking a game-wrecker. Pick your position. Being around those Philadelphia Eagles down there in New Orleans all week for the Super Bowl opened my eyes to how I’m going to view the Packers, the Bills here in Western New York, any team that’s knocking on the door. You need to take some swings. You need to take some chances. The Eagles take chances that I don’t think Green Bay remotely considers. Maybe Brian Gutekunst is a little more open-minded than Ted Thompson was when it comes to the “red flag” on the rap sheet. Whether it’s taking a chance on a player in the draft or trading draft capital for a player, I’m with you.

The two names that you threw out there, I think everybody listening is conditioned to think, “Oh my god, Green Bay would never do that. But maybe Green Bay should start thinking like that if they’re interested in Super Bowls instead of bashing their head against the wall in the playoffs. Bob McGinn laid it out on a podcast right after they lost to Philadelphia in that wild card game. Very rarely do coaches get to Year 7, Year 8, Year 9 with the same team without winning the Super Bowl. It’s time for Matt LaFleur in Green Bay, Sean McDermott and Buffalo, these coaches who have been in this game year to year. Very similar situations. So that would be one way, right? It is not just pandering to your fan base. It’s what’s best for the team — trade that pick for a player. I don’t even know if Garrett Wilson wants out. If Aaron Rodgers was sticking around the Jets, he’d want the hell out of there? So Green Bay caught a bad break there that they moved on from Aaron Rodgers.

Butler: I knew San Francisco was going to start dumping players, but I didn’t see Deebo Samuel for fifth-round pick going to the Commanders. Another team that you’ve got to worry about. Detroit is a team that’s still good. They lost their coaches, but they still got great players. So you have to look at the entire NFC keeping up with the Joneses. And then you see Minnesota, that big tackle came from the Commanders. Jonathan Allen. So I’m like, “OK, they’re just missing a quarterback.” Which they say they’re not doing the Aaron Rodgers thing. And I’m going to tell you my experience. Whenever somebody tells you stuff like, “Hey, I'm going to be a good father today!” You don't need to tell us — just be a good father. Whenever somebody say, “We’re not in on it?” They’re in on it. OK? J.J. McCarthy is the future, but that team is built for now. All the money they done gave in free agency, they want to win now.

Dunne: I think J.J. McCarthy can win now. Why not? We see young quarterbacks win now.

Butler: Yeah, of course. Especially young man, Jayden Daniels. He’s winning now. But I think the head coach in the back of his mind is like, “We’re not bringing back Sam Darnold. But that was fun winning 14, 15 games.”

Butler: I think they still might text him, “Hey man, listen.” His agent is David Dunn. He went to Pittsburgh for six hours. I don’t know how you let him leave without getting a deal. But I do have a conspiracy, which I normally don’t do conspiracy theories, but I have one…

Conspiracy is Aaron gets in there and Arthur Smith is the coordinator, former Atlanta head coach. He says, “I’ll sign right now if y’all change the offense. The offense runs through me.” And Arthur Smith is like, “WTF. No, you got to learn the offense.” (Rodgers says) “I’m 41 years old, I don’t want to learn the offense. Let me sprinkle some things in there.” Because the one time George Pickens runs an in when he’s supposed to run an out, how’s that conversation going to go? Aaron is going to go up to him and (Pickens) is going to be like, “Man, kick rocks.” But if you let me implement what I want to do — which I’ve done my whole life — these guys will put up big numbers and we’ll win. The same thing in Minnesota. Kevin O’Connell, I like you, man. But I want to run my own offense. Aaron Jones knows it already. He can help me teach it to these guys. It’s a commitment in the offseason. He don’t want to do that. Learn a whole new offense?

Dunne: He’s not going to OTAs. He’s not making that commitment.

Butler: No! Man, I don’t want to do that. But if he has to learn the offense and sign now, see, now he’s on the hook to go to the OTAs, come in and learn, get chemistry with the guys. So he’s going to try to play this as long as this Pittsburgh will let him. And I think, allegedly, they said: “Take your time.”

Dunne: Pittsburgh, they’re going to let Aaron Rodgers do whatever Aaron Rodgers wants to do. They put themselves in this position. This is quarterback malpractice. This is everything that you just alluded to a few moments ago. They hung onto Ben Roethlisberger a year too long and that screwed ‘em. You’ve got to draft a quarterback when you don’t need a quarterback. Green Bay’s done it twice. Ron Wolf did it throughout the 90s with the best player in the sport. Brett Favre’s winning three MVPs in a row and they’re still drafting quarterbacks. Pittsburgh drafted some, but the point is: they should have drafted the heir apparent when they still had Ben Roethlisberger. And then once they did? They chose one of the worst drafts historically at the position and took Kenny Pickett. Then, they thought they could get by on the cheap with Russell Wilson and Justin Fields. They made this bed. They’ve got to sleep in it.

You tell us, LeRoy, you’ve been around this team, this quarterback. You’ve got intimate knowledge of how he operates on the field and off the field. I don’t see Aaron Rodgers changing at 41. It’s a good team around him. The Steelers are built to win now: TJ Watt, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Cam Heyward on defense. They make the trade for DK Metcalf. Jaylen Warren’s a player. George Pickens. Pat Freiermuth. The line’s going to be better. I love the team. But Mike Tomlin’s blind spot at quarterback has been brutal. A quarterback you faced in Tampa Bay — Shaun King — he got into it on this show, and he loves Tomlin. He even said himself that when it comes to the quarterback position, (Tomlin) delegated for too long. So that’s what leads to you being in this state of total desperation, hoping and praying that an ornery 41-year-old quarterback who hasn’t played good football in three years wants to play for you and you’ve just got to let him do what he wants offensively. He’s going to have full autonomy.

Butler: That’s the only way it could be. Let him do his thing. And if he comes in, I think you have a legitimate chance to get to the Super Bowl.

Dunne: You do?

Butler: Yes. Don’t tell Josh I said that. I love the Bills. Josh Allen is the man. I think they’ll go to the AFC Championship Game and get to the Super Bowl.

Dunne: Whoa! Alright.

Butler: If Aaron Rodgers goes to Pittsburgh, you can expect them to be in the Super Bowl. They’ll be my Super Bowl pick if he goes there. Now, Terry Bradshaw, I don’t know if he likes Aaron Rodgers. So they’re going to have to fix that.

Dunne: He does not like Aaron Rodgers. At all.

Butler: Let’s just assume he doesn’t. But I think the fan base will be on-board, man, when they start winning. Because the only thing they’re missing is a quarterback. If they could protect the quarterback, Aaron doesn’t have to do all his stuff. He could just throw the ball, run the ball, and create some chemistry. That’s all Pittsburgh needs. They’re just missing a quarterback.

Dunne: Josh Allen. Patrick Mahomes. Joe Burrow. Lamar Jackson, CJ Stroud. Conference is loaded. What have you seen in Aaron Rodgers that makes you really think that he can lead a team to a conference championship game? Take it all the way back to the divisional playoff loss to San Francisco. You’re the No. 1 seed. You’re at Lambeau Field. And your offense can’t do diddly poo to quote Jim Mora. Nothing. Absolutely nothing from the MVP. That game forward — and that’s the 2021 season — he’s been a middle-of-the-pack quarterback at best. So why do you think that he just turns it on in 2025?

Butler: That’s not even the worst one. The worst one is when we needed to beat Detroit a couple years ago to get in the playoffs. That one gave me heartburn. Aaron has to give up the control. And I think Pittsburgh’s the only team that can do that. He has to give up the control and really become not the bird that comes in with the worm feeding one of the babies. He has to be one of the babies with his mouth open wanting to receive coaching and receive the whole team concept. And the only place that can do that is Pittsburgh, because Tomlin ain’t going for what the Jets went for. It ain’t happening. It ain’t happening because Tomlin wants to win a Super Bowl. But you got to get in where your fit is. It’s like your kids. I don’t blame my kids for being spoiled. I blame me. I let them throw fits in the supermarket. “No, I want Fruit Loops!” “No, you’re getting Cheerios.” “I want Fruit Loops!” And they’ll just knock all the cereal down. Maybe I created a monster. It’s too late. Baked in the cake.

Sometimes we spoil them and then we get mad because they’re spoiled. But when you discipline them early — don’t even take ‘em to the store. Wait til you get home. Even if they show out, it’s at home. Nobody saw it. When you’re telling Aaron, he can bring in players and he can get the Hacketts. Pittsburgh ain’t doing that. If you want to play — like Cam Heyward said — come on in and play. What’s to think about? The structure is there. So they need Aaron. But Aaron needs them. So it’s a good marriage. That’s the reason why he will be disciplined enough to get them to the Super Bowl. That’s the only thing they’re missing. And it elevates your game. When I saw Reggie White, you didn’t think it made me say, “Hey man, I got to step my game up.” Oh, Brett. Oh man. I got Antonio Freeman, Dorsey Levens, Edgar Bennett and the Super Bowl MVP Desmond Howard. I stepped my game up. That’s why I’m shocked that he was there for six hours and they let him out the building. Sign him. You got to almost do whatever you want to do now.

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Dunne: I’m stunned (by your take). I don’t see Aaron Rodgers changing his stripes at this point of his career. I don’t think he is as maniacally obsessed with a Super Bowl like a Tom Brady.

Butler: That’s a different stratosphere. You’re right about that.

Dunne: To make these concessions, you have to be. If you’re that obsessed with winning Super Bowls, you’re going to have to become part of a team, become a cog of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hey, you might be right. He does need the Steelers. What other options does he have out there?

Butler: In your mind, don’t be a band: “I’m the lead singer. Y’all play on instruments in the back.” And when I lead a group, we just fall dead. What you need is like Pittsburgh, you need to be part of an orchestra. We all sound the same.. That’s what he needs. And when he left the orchestra in Green Bay to be part of a band, you couldn’t sell no records. But you can get back to platinum, if you go be a part of an orchestra. The band stuff is over. Just one guy doing everything? Lamar Jackson has to do everything. Bands don’t win. Orchestras win championships. If he really wants that, after he goes to drink the ayahuasca stuff and finds a rare beetle that only he can find and walks on the beach with the cape thing? I don’t know how they got that picture.

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Dunne: Total accident, total coincidence. Leave him alone. He’s enjoying his privacy. No way did Aaron Rodgers want his picture taken in that situation. Just a man trying to live his life. Let him be.

Butler: When I retired. I looked forward to it. You know why? It’s what we talked about: family. Aaron doesn’t have a wife that I know of, doesn’t have kids that I know of, doesn’t have a dog that I know of. It’s just him. He’s estranged from his family. He’s married to the game. Like Brady was. A lot of players are like that: “I’m married to my job.” Well, if you get all that money, who you going to share it with? I made all my Pro Bowls and All-Pros when I was married. So when you come home and they grab your knee and say, “Daddy!” they don’t know that you lost a Super Bowl.

Dunne: That’s a great point. He doesn’t have family. He doesn’t really have religion to my knowledge. I think he did a story at ESPN The Magazine with Mina Kimes when he took everybody through his spiritual journey. A lot of people, their foundation is family or religion — something beyond the game. And you’re right, it is just football. But I think it’s more specific to how people think of him. He cares deeply about public perception and the national discourse. I don’t think he minds that he’s the No. 1 storyline in the NFL, what, three weeks running now. Since that first 24-hour wave of free agency. That stuff matters to him. The weekly McAfee hits. Sitting down with a friend in the media in Green Bay. That matters deeply to Aaron Rodgers for sure. I wrote the story at Bleacher Report in 2019 and reported on some detail that at that time it was jarring to a lot of readers. Maybe not so much now seeing how his career has played out. But there’s a reason he went scorched earth after that. He cares deeply about what people think of him and perception.

I don’t think it’s Tom Brady Super Bowl starvation. Needing to be in these championship games. Relishing it. Because if it was, the body language in Orchard Park, NY last season would be different. The Jets are getting their asses beat by the Bills and he’s laughing when he got a personal foul penalty. It wasn’t pissing him off like you think it would. That was the game that signaled the death of those New York Jets and his Jets career. Right there. It didn’t really bother him. If that’s Tom Brady, it’s a different story. I don't know if he cares that deeply about winning championships to the point where “I will swallow the pride, swallow the ego, and play my part in the orchestra that is the Pittsburgh Steelers.” Tell me I’m wrong.

Butler: Man, listen. He cares about his legacy. He does. He cares that winning a Super Bowl at 41 — not only may he get the Nobel Peace Prize — but it separates you from all the guys who won it once. Because he already knows he’s going to be in the Hall of Fame. First ballot Hall of Fame. The reason why I get therapy every Thursday for the last 28 years, I like being me. I do. And I never look in the mirror that just shows the medicine cabinet from the chest up. I look in the mirror that shows my full body. I love what I see and I’ll go be myself. The thing about it is Aaron Rodgers knows, “They ain’t a chance without me!” So that drive is what you want in the locker room. But see, the thing about it though, when you want somebody? You take everything: the baggage, the clothes, the sofa, everything. Especially with an ex. Somebody’s always somebody ex. Unless you meet a young lady like my first wife. I was her first real boyfriend. And my second wife, she had a divorce. So did I. And she said, “I got some bad news.” I said, “Wait, you’re not a man, are you?” She was laughing. I said, “What can be so bad? I’m trying to loosen her up.” She’s laughing. She said, “No, I got two little kids.” One was 1, one was 2. I said, “I got some worse news. I got four.” And we both laughed again. So when I accept her — bring the kids, too. I’m a man. Because normally she said when she told a guy that she had two little babies, they take off.

But I’m a man. It’s a package. So I know what I’m getting with Aaron Rodgers. I know what I’m getting. But still, there’s nobody I can draft that throws the ball like him because I want to win now. We got more Super Bowls than anybody, and it was fun. Am I willing to take this risk? You damn right. Aaron Rodgers is worth the risk because that’s the only thing we’re missing. If Pittsburgh was missing four or five things, you’re right. But Aaron Rodgers brings a lot to this table. He brings the only something that you need. It’s almost like having a lottery ticket but you can’t cash it in, man.

So he’ll sign with Pittsburgh and he’ll be amazing. And that’s the fulfillment. That’s the wife, kids and dog and picket fence that everybody look for. It’s a fulfillment of proving people wrong. That’s the marriage. Yeah! Because Tyler Dunne has got to write a story about me!

Dunne: Oh, he’s going to stick it to us then. He wins the Super Bowl, it’s one of the greatest stories in pro football.

Butler: Yes! Y’all have to talk about me! So yes, Pittsburgh can save my life, but darn it, I can save theirs. That’ll be seven Super Bowls if they won one. That would be amazing. No. 15 in Kansas City just dominating the AFC or one of my favorite players, Josh Allen. Y’all got grandpa like Uncle Drew coming to the park, beating y’all. Remember how old he was with the old guys and they beat those guys? That’s Aaron Rodgers.

Dunne: But he’s not the same quarterback though, right? He was at his best improvising, freelancing. Second reaction. outside of the pocket.

Butler: No argument.

Dunne: He’s never been a quarterback who dominates from the pocket death by 1,000 paper cuts. It’s never really been his strength. And you saw it with the Jets. Strictly sticking to the football. Not even the other six days of the week. I know he had the great game against Jacksonville, Miami. There were some good moments late. I can’t get that Bills game out of my mind. When he faced good teams, he looked creaky, immobile.

Butler: They’ll be able to protect him. You don’t want him moving because you don’t want him out of the pocket — he gets hurt, then he’s done. This is a one-year deal to do something. Me and you crave family and friends and stuff. So that for him would be to just quiet everybody who says he isn’t going to be able to do it. That’s the drive. And then he’ll be able to go off into the sunset like John Elway.

Dunne: You’re saying the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl right here.

Butler: Hey, listen. To all the Go Long subscribers. I’m standing on business. If Aaron Rodgers is in Pittsburgh, they’re winning Super Bowl. Or, or what could be better than that? Just ask me.

Dunne: What could be better than that LeRoy Butler?

Butler: You know what can be better than that, Tyler. If it’s a rematch of Super Bowl 45 and Jordan Love beats him in the Super Bowl.

Dunne: Oh, a Pittsburgh-Green Bay Super Bowl in Santa Clara. I don’t think there’s a better NFL storyline for 2025 than that.

Butler: My production crew is coming. I do that documentary. To see Aaron against Jordan Love in the Super Bowl, and Jordan Love beats him? Oh my.

Dunne: Mike McCarthy comes out for the coin flip.

Butler: One thing we did on Go Long tonight, I think we solved the Aaron Rodgers problem. I think we solved it for the entire world. If you don’t get 100,000 new subscribers off this something, somebody’s sleeping.

Dunne: LeRoy Butler says Aaron Rodgers is winning his Super Bowl with the Pittsburgh Steelers. That’s the headline right there.

Butler: They’re not missing anything but him. He needs them. They probably need him more, but they need each other.

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Dunne: But I’d be remiss though, what went wrong last season for Jordan Love? I know the injuries were a factor. It seems like, personal opinion, you’re paying a quarterback 55 mill a year. Let him sling it. I love Josh Jacobs. I love kicking ass at the line of scrimmage. They need that element. But you get into these games, these big games — Lions, Vikings, Eagles. The teams they lost to. You’ve got to let your quarterback throw it deep. You can’t be afraid of interceptions and mistakes. Let him play. But maybe I’m being too simplistic. What did you see in Jordan Love last season and what do you expect to see in 2025?

Butler: I think last year he went through a stage where he was very aggressive. He was throwing into double coverage. The interceptions got out of control. But he seems to be a second-half quarterback. The year before, 18-to-1 touchdowns to interceptions. And this year, I think it was like 7 or 8 to one. But this will be going to his third year. That’s when all quarterbacks start to see what we have. You are already the franchise based on what we’re paying you. But put that to the side. I think the offense did change a little bit with Josh Jacobs for the good.

Dunne: Agreed, agreed.

Butler: Jordan Love can throw the ball at all angles. Jordan Love has some of the best ball-handling skills. He’s very coachable. He’s a great leader. But decision-making and clutch is what separates quarterbacks. I said he’ll be the best quarterback in his draft. He’s got a lot of work to do because Jalen Hurts has been to two Super Bowls and won one. But Jalen Hurts was second round. So the quarterbacks in his draft, he can play with them. I expect him to be an MVP candidate this year because I know his work ethic. They’ll have people around him that can get open. But he has to move to another level in the fourth quarter. So if I was coaching him… this offseason, you know what we working on? No-huddle. Tempo. Look at him in no-huddle and tempo. He’s better than almost every quarterback in the league. When he’s calling his own stuff, he’s lining everybody up.

I can never get out of my head. Against the Cowboys a couple of years ago, they were blitzing. He set the protection, he moved over to Dontayvion Wicks and ran a post touchdown against the blitz. The offense has to evolve into, “Listen, this offseason, tell me what you like. I know you know the system and all that. Tell me what you like. The first 15 in OTAs, let me see what you like. Just go take over.” There’s no more handcuffs on. Let him go. Just let him go. Quarterbacks love that. But now you are creating something that you’ve got to control, too. That's how Aaron Rodgers…

Dunne: Ryan Grant kind of described it as artificial intelligence. You create this monster, it does a lot of good. You saw it with Aaron Rodgers. But then it could get to a point where then you can’t reel it back in. There is a balance.

Butler: Quarterbacks go through it, but it’s worth the risk of your quarterback taking control in the locker room and on the field. Because I’m great friends with Matt LaFleur. That’s my guy. But I disagree with him and that’s a good thing about Green Bay. We can disagree. It is about the quarterback because he said, “Well, I don’t really like to put it all on the quarterback.” I do. Yes. Because not only do we pay him the most. Other than the center, he’s the first guy that touches the ball. He’s a difference-maker. That’s why Cam Ward is the No. 1 pick. Shedeur Sanders. Dart. All these guys are going to go high. You need to have a quarterback. Teach him the language, but don’t speak for him. He can speak for himself. That’s how you get him to the next level. Because you know who the best two-minute quarterback in history is? Jim Kelly. Jim Kelly ain’t letting nobody substitute. Jim Kelly ain’t letting nobody get no signals. He’s putting you on skates. Now I know they didn’t win a Super Bowl, but they went to four. That’s success to me.

Ask Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning is getting coached but when Peyton Manning started calling his own plays, whew. He took off. Some quarterbacks need the guidance and some of ‘em take that PG-13 away and give it a Rated R. I’m good with whatever you do. I trust you because all the stuff we talk about — AI and AR. I started a company with August Allen, me and Justin Hayes, we created the brain to think like me.

It’s OK to create your quarterback as an AI because he’s going to think like you. He’s not going to do some rogue stuff. You know why? Because we didn’t feed it to him. You have to feed AI what you wanted to know. So you feed Jordan Love everything in the system and give him the tools. “I’m here if you need me!” Yes. But I know where to go. I know everybody. I’ll bring him in and sit down and say, “I’m putting a lot on you this year. You’re going to be the man. You know everything. I don’t need to make a call every single time. You know what the defense is in. What do you like?” You work on it now, because as you raise your kids up, Tyler, when they go to college, there’s no anxiety. Because you raised them properly. That’s the biggest anxiety. How are my kids when I’m not around? My kids are fantastic because I raised them right.

Jordan Love has been raised properly with his Mom. You guys have raised him right. Tom Clements had him for three or four years. He knows the system. He sat back and waited for three years. That’s why Aaron was so good. He waited for three years behind Brett and he knew everything. “I got it from here. I got it.” And you got to let him have it. But you got to also say, “I’m not worried about it because I’m the one who fed him what I want him to have.”

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Dunne: That’s the best Jordan Love breakdown I’ve heard. He was a backup for three years. He’s been a starter for two years. He has seen a lot. He has lived through the ups and downs. It’s time — for better or worse, ready or not — to let him go. And that’s hard for any coach. Especially an offensive coach. Think about Matt LaFleur. You come in and it’s Aaron Rodgers’ show. Aaron Rodgers has that final say, that autonomy. And there’s a lot of good. He won two MVPs. But when Jordan Love is the quarterback, it’s finally your chance to put your imprint on this offense. So I get wanting to really have your death grip on everything offensively if you’re Matt LaFleur. But now it’s Year 3 for Jordan Love. Now, it’s time to loosen that death grip, I think is your point. An astute observation. We’ll see. You’ve got six, seven months to figure it out.

Butler: Same thing with Josh Allen. I like when Josh Allen does his own thing. I do. And I’m OK with the results. You can’t be scared to think that they’re not going to do something nefarious. No! Because you are the one that fed him. Now, if he came from somebody else’s team, that’s kind of a head-scratcher because you’ve got to detox him and get that out of the system and put your information in. You brought him in. He’s your guy! You are the one that when you had an MVP that said: “If my guy’s there, matter of fact, we’re going to trade up to get him.” He didn’t fall in our lap. We’re going to get you because we want to be good in ‘23, ‘24 and ’25. Your third year. Aaron Rodgers’ third year, I said, “Oh boy. Did you see that throw?”

He won a Super Bowl in Year 3.

Butler: Yes. Brett Favre came over from Atlanta. They had him down there on third string. We had The Majik Man. Don Majkowski had the best mullet since Joe Dirt. Love Joe Dirt. I said, “Wait a minute. We’ve got the Majik Man. Why are they bringing in Favre?” Hey man, they want to be good in the future. Majik hurts his shoulder. Brett goes in and wins the game against Cincinnati. Let’s go. Same thing with Jordan Love. Tell him, but you got to show him. Today, it’s on you. You’ve got the first 15. After that, if you want me, I’m here. And you still coach him up — the mechanics and all this. But it’s on you.

If you’re driving with your 16-year-old, but you’re driving. They’re on the passenger side. “Just watch me now. Just watch me. I’m driving, putting my blinker on. No road rage. I’m just focused. I’m stopping. Doing everything.” And then when you get to a red light, nobody’s around. Nobody’s around. And your Dad put it in park and said, “Walk around. It’s your turn. Drive us home.” “Well, I don’t know where to go!” “You do. I’m going to give you these keys and not going to take ‘em back. I trust you.” Come over and let him drive. Yes, he’s going to slam on the brakes. Yes, he may go too fast. Yes, he’s going to leave his blinker on. Yes, he left the seat warmer on your side. But you’ll get home safe. That’s the prize. And that’s how you do Jordan Love. Give him the keys! You’re still in the car. You’re in the car. Let him drive.

Dunne: That analogy really hits different as a father. I am not ready for that at all with Ella and Sonny. I’m not ready to give them the keys. I'm Matt LaFleur. I’m holding onto the keys.

Butler: You want them to go to driving school and have a coordinator talk to them.

Dunne: Yeah, I’m bringing in Tom Clements. He’s free. He’s coming to the Greater Boston/Colden area of Western New York. Tom’s coming in and we’ll co-parent.

We were talking about Mark Murphy at the top of the pod. His legacy to me isn’t bringing the draft to Green Bay, although it’s amazing. It’s facing those brutal, excruciating tough decisions and being willing to let the football people make the football decisions. Right out of the chute as the president — the summer of ’08 — I’m out there as an intern at The Shawano Leader and Packer Report. It’s madness. I remember being young thinking, “What in the hell is Green Bay doing here? Brett Favre wants to come back and you're saying no! Mark Murphy, who are you, man? You just walked into this situation. Brett Favre is bigger than anybody here.” But he did the right thing. He trusted Ted Thompson. They made the right decision and then—fast forward — the right decision again. You let Brian Gutekunst draft that quarterback in Jordan Love. You stand by it a year later when Rodgers holds your franchise hostage for three months. “Complicated fella,” quote and all. Which by the way, Mark got killed for that in the media. All he did was speak the truth. Yes. This is a complicated fella. He was quoting Ted.

You’re running an organization, you’re running a team. I thought he handled that situation beautifully, authentically, as a human being. Not as a corporate, poll-tested, “I need to say what a PR person is telling me to say” in every interview. He was himself. And I think it’s appreciated by the fans. Now it's Jordan Love’s team and they’re set up to win for a while. It’s a tough division. But they did the right thing. They drafted a quarterback when nobody thought they would and they knew it was going to piss off Aaron Rodgers, but they did what was best for the Green Bay Packers.

Butler: I was glad they did it. Because when Brett left, Brett didn’t throw the fans under the bus. He just had a disagreement with Ted or even McCarthy. But he went to the Jets and went to Minnesota. And in Minnesota, he played his best year statistically. But Rodgers, it just seemed like, the fans, he just didn’t think that was the right place for him. And I’m like, “Don't do that to the fans.” If you have a disagreement with upper management… because allegedly somebody said he told Murphy, “You’ve got to fire Gutekunst.” That ain’t happening. We are not firing an executive of the year candidate.

Dunne: Charles Robinson at Yahoo! and it was never denied. It’s true.

Butler: I’m like, “You just don’t like it here.” He needs a change the scenery and OK, fine. Got a draft pick. It was great. So we came out great because sometimes when your Hall of Famer leaves, the organization’s in shambles. But I remember they were 2-5 and they get in the playoffs? Unbelievable. Matt LaFleur coached his tail off, man. No coach wants to wake up saying, “I got a bunch of babies over there.” He got ‘em into the playoffs and they were only two plays away from beating San Francisco — a kicker and one throw. Now, think about that. Nobody gave them a chance in Dallas, but there’s a few teams that you just couldn’t beat: Detroit and San Francisco. Those two teams probably cost Matt LaFleur two Super Bowl opportunities. Probably three. You got Tom Brady coming in there with Tampa in the championship game, dead to rights, and he threw three picks. Tom Brady threw three picks. I’m thinking, “We’re going to the Super Bowl.” But he lived it through all of that.

We think we got a great coach, great quarterback, and now, and Gutekunst has said it. “We think we’re ready for a championship.” He’s not afraid to say it. But when they come back for OTAs, man, the Commanders look good. Philly looks big and strong. I don’t know what other team is out there. There’s always these teams that bubble up. Is it a Tampa Bay? These type of teams come and you’ve got to be in that because if you're at the bottom again, that lost at home to Chicago was heartburn 100. You can’t lose to a losing franchise you beat 11 straight. Winning that game does something because you had lost two straight. So the last time you were in the locker room, you lost a game. Now you got to push the reset button and the reset would be if you get in front of the team, “Hey man, 10’s our guy.” Which you knew that, but in our offensive meeting, let him run the show.

Dunne: A perfect note to end on right there: Let Jordan Love run the show.

Butler: We’re doing a Part 2.

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