Daniel Jones made plays on Sunday. The Giants are also a 2-7 football team. The answers to a maddening season are found in watching this QB the same time as the QB that got this GM and HC promotions.
As always, THE BEST analysis anywhere! DJ is gone after this season, Mara needs to keep himself and his nepo execs out of the way and let JS and BD build. Some other NYG musings: Bobby Okereke is a huge disappointment at mlb, always goes high never makes an impact tackle; Nabers needs to talk less or he will be a huge problem with a rookie qb; collectively we’ve got to play smarter. The td that Banks gave up right before the half was idiotic. He bit on an inside underneath fake, the exact spot you wanted the ball to go to so the half would end. That play plus “I don’t get it” going for 2 becomes the point differential. Lastly, opi? This is becoming the most poorly over-officiated sport imaginable
The defense is baffling. The whole reason Bowen was hired was to jack up that awful run D. Thought blitzing less and playing more disciplined would help but nothing's changed at all.
Nabers' comments after games is a bit concerning, too. As you can probably tell, I'm not too sure who the 2025 draftee nominees would be but right now -- if he hasn't already -- Schoen should deploy top scouts to go all in on this rookie class. That's what the Bills did in '18. Still believe the Giants are led by the right people but they've got to take their own QB swing, and connect.
“That’s where Daniel Jones made his 70th career start against the NFC East-leading Washington Commanders.” I didn’t realize that Daniel Jones has been in the league long enough to start against Washington 70 times.
I enjoy your stuff, Tyler. Some sentences, especially introductory ones, sometimes require more time.
The Giants as seen on HBO this spring/summer was not a flattering portrait to a complete outsider looking in. That would be me. I thought Dabold was unprofessional (looking unkempt, leaning back, feet on the desk while interviewing prospective draft choices, sending off an air of ‘My shit doesn’t stink. Impress me.’ The general manager during the offseason was in a tough spot and made, as of today, the wrong choices of letting popular and proven veterans walk and not drafting a quarterback that, at the very least, would generate downstream hope. Owners should know by now that you can’t take coaching cohorts from Super Bowl winning teams, elevate one of those assistants to head coach, and expect similar results with their teams.
There are crazy amounts of unprofessionalism in the league compared with coaches I grew up watching: Lombardi, Shula, Blanton Collier, George Allen, Chuck Knoll. I believe the way leaders carry themselves impacts the players, and the whole organization. Look at Campbell in Detroit. Has a vision, said we’re going to find players to get us there, and away they went. Since starting his second season 1-6, Detroit is 27-8. Kevin O’Connell in Minnesota has gone about changing the culture; the Vikings are a team on the rise in a Division on the rise. Matt LeFleur is a good coach, but he hasn’t figured out how to get a team across the finish line in the playoffs—he had rosters to do it—and he hasn’t figured out how to say no to quarterbacks.
You know my position on Love. To answer one of your commentators on this story, yes, last season’s late season run by Love’s Packers might have been a mirage. Love’s agent capitalized and now Love has an obese contract. Love appears not to have impulse control, does not yet fully recognize how clever NFL defenses can be, sometimes his passes have arcs that are too pronounced, and is too in love with himself playing hero ball. If Matt LeFleur is coaching him, either Love is not listening or LeFleur is not effective with him. If Love was with O’Connell in Minnesota, his improvement would be steady. This year, Love sometimes looks like he hasn’t been coached. Injuries are not an excuse. Everyone is injured in the NFL.
Yesterday in driving rain, LeFleur’s receivers ran crossing routes and other routes which required precise ball placement. Green Bay’s receivers had trouble getting to the spot where the ball was, and did not always catch it. Look at the routes the Lions’ receivers mostly ran: Stop routes with the receivers body facing the passer and the ball, button hooks, or dig routes coming back to the ball. Simple as a pimple. Green Bay didn’t devise (or revise) a game plan to meet the elements and the indoor team from Detroit did. It’s called coaching.
Looking forward to the next Ty and Bob Pod; the McGinn Memory is always an interesting dessert. Keep up your excellent work. If I were to resubscribe, how can I do that and get a copy of your book for doing so?
Fair points across the board even if we don't agree! And I could see how that "70th" sentence may twist the tongue. Cleared up after the fact.
Thank you as always for reading, listening, debating and offering your perspective in full. I love it.
And absolutely. If anyone here is re-upping, just shoot me an email with your mailing address at golongtd@substack.com. Would love to send some Blood and Guts.
Your comment about the Bears was as close to someone reading my mind in real time as I've ever come. How in the world did the Bears ever think it would work out otherwise? Oh wait. Never mind it's the Bears.
Thank you always for your intelligent and fair commentary on Daniel jones. To me the actions of Daboll have been alarming. The play calling is abysmal - what happened to Mike Kafka? The lack of effort, the amount of players in and out of the doghouse, even Nabers is questioning stuff. That's the biggest problem here
Solid point on Nabers. I like that the Giants took a chance on a personality -- remember Joe Schoen likened Nabers to Steve Smith. But he'll need some continuous coaching. I think Daboll will be able to handle him.
Imo, Jones has gone from getting too much praise early in his career (by Giants fans / media) to too much blame late, likely because of the contract. They were in a tough position when they overachieved in 2022 and he had a great playoff game. I get why they did what they did. I still don't think everything's his fault, but I also don't think he's the kind of guy that can elevate a bad supporting cast consistently. But I also think he gets too much focus. At this point it's clear he's not going to be the future quarterback. The bigger question is whether Schoen and Daboll are going to be the guys for the rebuild in the long run. Mara has indicated that he wants them to be. But that's where I have my doubts. Let's say you keep these guys for the short term to allow them to draft their own QB. Then the team sucks next year and you fire them. And you have a young QB learning a whole new system in his second year. I've seen that formula screw up so many young QBs. I guess I'm struggling to see what Daboll and Schoen have done to give us confidence they can build a good team. Yes I know 2022 was good, but McAdoo and Judge had flashes of positives early in their careers before everything unravelled. I don't really see any roster or draft moves that Schoen has made that inspire confidence. I was fine with getting rid of Barkley, he was always overrated and could never run well or stay healthy behind our line. Letting Xavier McKinney go was a much bigger question mark for me, especially considering the sorry state of our secondary. What other draft picks have Schoen made that have gone well? Nabers was a great pick, but it also wasn't that hard a pick to make when you have someone that big of a superstar just sitting there. Other than that.. it's year three, I need to start seeing some things come together.
I don't think Schoen and Daboll are going anywhere. The best analysis of Jones was on MNF when Aikman pointed out that Jones doesn't throw with anticipation; he has to wait for the receiver to be open BEFORE throwing. The defender has way too much time. I think what Mara said is true, that they did everything possible to screw DJ up and I also think Jones is not good enough.
Also, I feel like other Giants fans forget that this team was a two-year teardown. Getty left a huge mess. We're in year one of a rebuild. The Giants missed getting Sauce Gardner by ONE LOSS, and last season losses to NEP and WFT would have had us picking at 2. If Mara keeps Schoen and hires BB, I'm here for it, but I think a combination of loyalty and stubbornness wins out and Dabes is HC next year.
As far as Saquon goes, he was a luxury for us but a perfect fit for a contender. Do I wish he had signed with KC? Ummmm...YEAH, but staying with the Giants would have destroyed whatever legacy he wanted to leave. He's going to ball out in Philthy, and I have no hard feelings, though I wish he would just shut up and play.
Finally, I wish Schoen would have picked up Jones' 23 million 5th year option as a hedge against what ultimately happened: one goid year and then disaster. We could have moved on. My only hope is that we choke away a losable game against the Panthers next week.
God bless you for writing about this moribund franchise, lol...
I don’t know Ty. You had me a believer from day one on the Buffalo connection but I think you give Daboll way too much credit for Josh ‘s success. Maybe he’s a great OC but he has become an arrogant holier than thou coach not much different from Judge or Shurmur at the end of their runs. He never answers questions or gives any reason for the poor decisions he makes week after week. His play calling and decision making over the last two seasons has gotten worse and worse. Sorry my man, but I’ll take the 70 year old guy who makes great decisions (24 years old!) over someone who is drowning in his own ego. Oh and Jones sucks. I’d rather see DeVito just so we have something (anything) to root for.
As always, THE BEST analysis anywhere! DJ is gone after this season, Mara needs to keep himself and his nepo execs out of the way and let JS and BD build. Some other NYG musings: Bobby Okereke is a huge disappointment at mlb, always goes high never makes an impact tackle; Nabers needs to talk less or he will be a huge problem with a rookie qb; collectively we’ve got to play smarter. The td that Banks gave up right before the half was idiotic. He bit on an inside underneath fake, the exact spot you wanted the ball to go to so the half would end. That play plus “I don’t get it” going for 2 becomes the point differential. Lastly, opi? This is becoming the most poorly over-officiated sport imaginable
All fantastic points, Rob.
The defense is baffling. The whole reason Bowen was hired was to jack up that awful run D. Thought blitzing less and playing more disciplined would help but nothing's changed at all.
Nabers' comments after games is a bit concerning, too. As you can probably tell, I'm not too sure who the 2025 draftee nominees would be but right now -- if he hasn't already -- Schoen should deploy top scouts to go all in on this rookie class. That's what the Bills did in '18. Still believe the Giants are led by the right people but they've got to take their own QB swing, and connect.
Was the last half of last season a fluke for Jordan Love? If so, Packers are in for a time of mediocrity.
We're about to find out. You know I'm bullish!
“That’s where Daniel Jones made his 70th career start against the NFC East-leading Washington Commanders.” I didn’t realize that Daniel Jones has been in the league long enough to start against Washington 70 times.
I enjoy your stuff, Tyler. Some sentences, especially introductory ones, sometimes require more time.
The Giants as seen on HBO this spring/summer was not a flattering portrait to a complete outsider looking in. That would be me. I thought Dabold was unprofessional (looking unkempt, leaning back, feet on the desk while interviewing prospective draft choices, sending off an air of ‘My shit doesn’t stink. Impress me.’ The general manager during the offseason was in a tough spot and made, as of today, the wrong choices of letting popular and proven veterans walk and not drafting a quarterback that, at the very least, would generate downstream hope. Owners should know by now that you can’t take coaching cohorts from Super Bowl winning teams, elevate one of those assistants to head coach, and expect similar results with their teams.
There are crazy amounts of unprofessionalism in the league compared with coaches I grew up watching: Lombardi, Shula, Blanton Collier, George Allen, Chuck Knoll. I believe the way leaders carry themselves impacts the players, and the whole organization. Look at Campbell in Detroit. Has a vision, said we’re going to find players to get us there, and away they went. Since starting his second season 1-6, Detroit is 27-8. Kevin O’Connell in Minnesota has gone about changing the culture; the Vikings are a team on the rise in a Division on the rise. Matt LeFleur is a good coach, but he hasn’t figured out how to get a team across the finish line in the playoffs—he had rosters to do it—and he hasn’t figured out how to say no to quarterbacks.
You know my position on Love. To answer one of your commentators on this story, yes, last season’s late season run by Love’s Packers might have been a mirage. Love’s agent capitalized and now Love has an obese contract. Love appears not to have impulse control, does not yet fully recognize how clever NFL defenses can be, sometimes his passes have arcs that are too pronounced, and is too in love with himself playing hero ball. If Matt LeFleur is coaching him, either Love is not listening or LeFleur is not effective with him. If Love was with O’Connell in Minnesota, his improvement would be steady. This year, Love sometimes looks like he hasn’t been coached. Injuries are not an excuse. Everyone is injured in the NFL.
Yesterday in driving rain, LeFleur’s receivers ran crossing routes and other routes which required precise ball placement. Green Bay’s receivers had trouble getting to the spot where the ball was, and did not always catch it. Look at the routes the Lions’ receivers mostly ran: Stop routes with the receivers body facing the passer and the ball, button hooks, or dig routes coming back to the ball. Simple as a pimple. Green Bay didn’t devise (or revise) a game plan to meet the elements and the indoor team from Detroit did. It’s called coaching.
Looking forward to the next Ty and Bob Pod; the McGinn Memory is always an interesting dessert. Keep up your excellent work. If I were to resubscribe, how can I do that and get a copy of your book for doing so?
Fair points across the board even if we don't agree! And I could see how that "70th" sentence may twist the tongue. Cleared up after the fact.
Thank you as always for reading, listening, debating and offering your perspective in full. I love it.
And absolutely. If anyone here is re-upping, just shoot me an email with your mailing address at golongtd@substack.com. Would love to send some Blood and Guts.
Your comment about the Bears was as close to someone reading my mind in real time as I've ever come. How in the world did the Bears ever think it would work out otherwise? Oh wait. Never mind it's the Bears.
Forgot to mention in the Ty & Bob Pod blurb -- we didn't get to Bears film! Our apologies. We'll hammer away next week for sure. Troubling trends...
Great assessment of what’s gone wrong in East Rutherford, but the Belichick was the most damning.
Thank you always for your intelligent and fair commentary on Daniel jones. To me the actions of Daboll have been alarming. The play calling is abysmal - what happened to Mike Kafka? The lack of effort, the amount of players in and out of the doghouse, even Nabers is questioning stuff. That's the biggest problem here
Solid point on Nabers. I like that the Giants took a chance on a personality -- remember Joe Schoen likened Nabers to Steve Smith. But he'll need some continuous coaching. I think Daboll will be able to handle him.
And thank you, as always, for reading!
Tyler has finally seen the light!
Imo, Jones has gone from getting too much praise early in his career (by Giants fans / media) to too much blame late, likely because of the contract. They were in a tough position when they overachieved in 2022 and he had a great playoff game. I get why they did what they did. I still don't think everything's his fault, but I also don't think he's the kind of guy that can elevate a bad supporting cast consistently. But I also think he gets too much focus. At this point it's clear he's not going to be the future quarterback. The bigger question is whether Schoen and Daboll are going to be the guys for the rebuild in the long run. Mara has indicated that he wants them to be. But that's where I have my doubts. Let's say you keep these guys for the short term to allow them to draft their own QB. Then the team sucks next year and you fire them. And you have a young QB learning a whole new system in his second year. I've seen that formula screw up so many young QBs. I guess I'm struggling to see what Daboll and Schoen have done to give us confidence they can build a good team. Yes I know 2022 was good, but McAdoo and Judge had flashes of positives early in their careers before everything unravelled. I don't really see any roster or draft moves that Schoen has made that inspire confidence. I was fine with getting rid of Barkley, he was always overrated and could never run well or stay healthy behind our line. Letting Xavier McKinney go was a much bigger question mark for me, especially considering the sorry state of our secondary. What other draft picks have Schoen made that have gone well? Nabers was a great pick, but it also wasn't that hard a pick to make when you have someone that big of a superstar just sitting there. Other than that.. it's year three, I need to start seeing some things come together.
"What other draft picks have Schoen made that have gone well? "
This years draft was superb. Malik Nabers (not everyone would have drafted him), Andru Phillips, Tyrone Tracy, Tyler Nubin, Elijah Chatman...
Maybe Schoen is getting better at his job.
I don't like that he ticked off players during contract negotiations though.
You make a good point. If Mara keeps them and they get their new QB, they need a couple years, minimum. And that has to factor into the decision.
I don't think Schoen and Daboll are going anywhere. The best analysis of Jones was on MNF when Aikman pointed out that Jones doesn't throw with anticipation; he has to wait for the receiver to be open BEFORE throwing. The defender has way too much time. I think what Mara said is true, that they did everything possible to screw DJ up and I also think Jones is not good enough.
Also, I feel like other Giants fans forget that this team was a two-year teardown. Getty left a huge mess. We're in year one of a rebuild. The Giants missed getting Sauce Gardner by ONE LOSS, and last season losses to NEP and WFT would have had us picking at 2. If Mara keeps Schoen and hires BB, I'm here for it, but I think a combination of loyalty and stubbornness wins out and Dabes is HC next year.
As far as Saquon goes, he was a luxury for us but a perfect fit for a contender. Do I wish he had signed with KC? Ummmm...YEAH, but staying with the Giants would have destroyed whatever legacy he wanted to leave. He's going to ball out in Philthy, and I have no hard feelings, though I wish he would just shut up and play.
Finally, I wish Schoen would have picked up Jones' 23 million 5th year option as a hedge against what ultimately happened: one goid year and then disaster. We could have moved on. My only hope is that we choke away a losable game against the Panthers next week.
God bless you for writing about this moribund franchise, lol...
I don’t know Ty. You had me a believer from day one on the Buffalo connection but I think you give Daboll way too much credit for Josh ‘s success. Maybe he’s a great OC but he has become an arrogant holier than thou coach not much different from Judge or Shurmur at the end of their runs. He never answers questions or gives any reason for the poor decisions he makes week after week. His play calling and decision making over the last two seasons has gotten worse and worse. Sorry my man, but I’ll take the 70 year old guy who makes great decisions (24 years old!) over someone who is drowning in his own ego. Oh and Jones sucks. I’d rather see DeVito just so we have something (anything) to root for.