Q&A: Ryan Leaf is the 'lighthouse' for NFL retirees
The former NFL QB, 10 years post-prison, is intent on helping retirees escape their living nightmare. Episode 2 of "How the NFL Works" is live. Here's the written transcript. (He doesn't hold back.)
Episode 2 of “How the NFL Works” is LIVE at Go Long.
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Here’s the written transcript of our conversation with former NFL quarterback Ryan Leaf. Life After Football is a cruel game for retirees… and it’s a game the NFL chooses not to play.
Leaf, however, has become a go-to resource for retirees across the country.
He truly believes he’s the luckiest guy on the face of the earth. The feeling of helping someone turn their life around, he says, trumps anything he would’ve felt hoisting the Lombardi Trophy.
You’ve never been afraid to share your good, your bad, your ugly. You’re brutally honest with your own life, Ryan, and I think in the process you’re saving lives for a lot of NFL players. I’m sure there’s so many conversations you’ve had with guys after they’ve left the NFL. We see players in gold jackets. We see players on ESPN and NFL Network. We tragically hear about the Vincent Jacksons. But there is, what, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 other guys in the middle. We really don’t know what they’re going through.
Leaf: There’s only 27,000 players ever to play in the hundred years of the NFL. That’s it. So it’s a small pool. It’s a really small pool, and there’s zero reason why any of us should be getting picked off. You know what’s ironic is the NFL, Park Avenue, I don’t have any access to former players through them. Zero. They don’t want me around their players. So, what happened to me — and this is how karma or kismet or how things work — is I developed a relationship with the CEO of the Menninger Clinic. And the Menninger Clinic is a state-of-the-art, psychiatric substance use disorder facility in Houston, Texas. I was at Peyton Manning’s induction to the Hall of Fame in 2021 and I ran into the CEO there. We just started talking and we stayed in touch. And then a couple years later, we came up with a plan on how I could give back because they had just worked out a deal with the NFL Players Association, which meant that they had the facility available to any former players.
So I go down quarterly now to Houston. Every time I go down, there’ll be anywhere from eight to 12 former players that are currently seeking treatment and getting the help that they need. And I have direct access to them, the access I would’ve never had through the NFL because they don’t do that. They put up this facade called the “NFL Legends Community,” which says we are going to be there for former players. But when the shit hits the fan for any former player — if it does any damage to the shield — they distance themselves from it. Anything that’s going bad for a player or a former player, that’s when people need you the most. That’s when they need the most support and help to feel like they’re not alone. And so, this is amazing how it’s worked out. I just got back recently from Houston just last month and, again, another tangible, purposeful opportunity to actually reach out and touch a fellow NFL brother and hopefully give them some hope that things can get better. Things can change. You can have the life of your dreams and you’re not wrapped up in this identity that lasts, I don’t know, 2.8 years on average. So it’s a big deal. It’s a big deal for me.
You put it perfectly a couple of years ago when you called the NFL, this “propaganda machine,” a “money-printing company,” and a “marketing arm.” But why? Why do you think when shit hits the fan — and I’ve heard this with countless former players — the league really isn’t there? Because that’s not a big number.
Leaf: I don’t understand it. I think they have enough PR issues going on that they don’t want this. They also, for being such a big corporation in the eyes of people, they are a small entity. There’s not a lot of people that work for them. And the bigger thing in all of this is Roger Goodell is managed by 31 owners. He does their bidding. And their bidding is to make as much money as possible. That’s what they do. I do believe some of them want to win championships just because there’s a competitive nature to the Billionaire Boys Club. But I also think the most important thing is there to be the most valued asset out there. And if there is anything that can do damage to that, they want it scuttled and put away and not talked about. Concussions are at the very forefront. The Damar Hamlin situation two years ago. All of those things, they want to move on immediately just like — when that happened — they wanted to go back right out on the field immediately.
They basically stepped over Damar Hamlin’s body. There were football games a few days later.
Leaf: The funny thing was, I had my own talk show for the last two years until our company got bought out by Fanatics Sportsbook recently. And I was pretty critical of Goodell and Troy Vincent, and I said that they should postpone games this week, utilize that bye week before the Super Bowl to allow teams to check in on one another. I didn’t think anybody had a chance to really check in with each other — in particular, the Buffalo Bills. They left Cincinnati and all of a sudden — they’re having to deal with all of it, whether or not he’s going to be healthy — and then to go out and play. So I was pretty critical of that. And normally I’m on “Good Morning Football” every week while I was in New York. Our coordinating producer got a call from Park Avenue and said, “Take Ryan off the broadcast this week.” And I was just like, “You know what? I’m OK with that.” If that’s their way of trying to control things, I don’t know. It was silly that they weren’t able to just own up to the fact that “This is a freak accident. We just knew what we do best and let’s go back to playing football. We made a mistake. We’ll now have more data and information to do better next time.” I would’ve loved that answer. I don’t mind if you mess up. In fact, look at me! I mess up all the time. I’m just really good now at going, “Oh wow, that was Old Behavior Me. I’m sorry. I’m going to try to be better the next time and not make that same mistake. Do you forgive me?” I think that just goes a long way.
They’re just not capable. And when you’ve fooled once, it’s a thing. If you keep being fooled over and over and over, then that’s on you. And you have to start making the decision to stand up and set healthy boundaries around those types of situations and incidents. And so Roger’s Roger. He works directly for the owners. The guy that I really have the beef with is Troy Vincent. He’s a former player and he just seems like he sold his soul for all that money. I don’t know if he believes he’s commissioner in-waiting because I guess that’s meaningful. It’s 40+ million a year, a private plane, all the things that come with commissioner status. But he’s a former player. That’s the thing that rubs me the wrong way and I think probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way, that he does not seem like an advocate for players, which is so ironic because he was one and he was a very good one.
Frankly, it’s a bit disgusting. That’s the biggest problem that I have and I think a lot of people have. I love that they like to bring back players and have them be a part of the league in different kind of ways. I do not think having former players be the ones that have to dish out punishment is a good thing either. You’re watching the Jon Runyan situation with Derwin James this last week. Derrick Brooks holds up the appeal process and I’m like, “Bro, man, you guys knew what it was like to play defense back there,” and now they’ve got all these changing rules on where you got to throw your head and you guys are just like, “We’ll just steal all their money. We’ll just take their money.” It’s just so odd to me that that’s the way it goes down there at the league.
With Troy Vincent, is he just bought and paid for then? Is he just a convenient mouthpiece for the league?
Leaf: Well, he’s very convenient. Yes. I think he’s bought and paid for and that’s unfortunate. It is. He could have a real position to be an advocate for the player, and he’s not. It’s not like this isn’t just public knowledge. What’s ironic about the NFL, this isn’t news. What I’m saying isn’t news to people. It’s widely known. It’s almost just like it’s the blurred background of a Zoom meeting. You know what’s behind you. You can see it. But you’re trying to just kind of blur it to everybody out there and they’re willing to just look through it through a blurred lens. And I’m a direct consumer here for the NFL. I love the NFL. I love football. I love consuming it. I love watching it. I sit on NFL Red Zone on Sundays for seven hours straight and watch football. So if I’m the one that’s willing to be critical and still sit and watch their product — which they’re enjoying billions of dollars from — they probably can look at it, like “Who cares what anybody has to say? They’re going to consume it anyway.” They’re exactly right. And if that’s ultimately the values that they live under? I don’t know if you saw recently the article that was written with the undercover investigative reporter with the Washington Commanders and the employee there and how insubordinate the employee was. But if you look at the context of what was said, none of that is deniable stuff. You’re just like, “Yeah, that’s them. But he is an employee. He shouldn’t have probably said that and that’s why he’s being suspended.” That was the injustice of it all. He’s telling the truth, but he just shouldn’t have done that. We can’t tell you how the sausage is made, but you know how the sausage is made.
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Let’s just be honest about the sport and what it does to your body, to your brain in the moment. Let’s not pretend there’s some crazy utopian middle ground that we can piece together — Frankensteinian. It doesn’t exist with what all these rules are trying to get toward. So let’s just be honest in the moment and then let’s be honest when guys are done with what it does to you. You’re living proof for that.
Leaf: It’s fine. It’s fine. I don’t blame anybody for anything. I don’t think I’m a victim. I chose to play football. Now, if they knew something more that they could have given us more data, I may make the same decision. Because I loved it. It took me to a place that I never would’ve been able to get to from little old Great Falls, Montana. So I just want all the data.
I’m going to give my son all the data. We’re not going to let him wear a helmet until he’s 16. But we’re going to give him all the information. And if he chooses at 16 years old to strap on a helmet and go play football in high school, he’s going to be doing it on his decision, on his choice with all the information that we give him. That’s it. And I don’t believe for a second that if they did that there wouldn’t be people that still would populate their game. I know their biggest fear is that the amount of kids in the pipeline that would start early would diminish because Moms would be holding them out at home. And I don’t know if that's right or wrong. I just want the information. Like anything, like any rational informed decision you’re making in life, whether that’s a political view in terms of how you’re going to vote or a decision in a profession or your livelihood or something that could do further damage to your brain and things like that. You just want the up-to-the-minute, the up-to-the-date data so you can make an informed decision. That’s all you want.
I don’t want to blame anybody else. And a lot of times when I’m advocating for this, everybody comes back to me — when I talk about lifetime insurance for players — people get on me about it: “When I leave my job, I don’t get lifetime insurance,” and I’m always like, “Stop comparing your job to our job. They’re not the same.” But also, if this will make you happy, when I advocate for all these things, the shift and the change that comes with it, I don’t need it. So, I don’t want it. I want it for my brothers. If that makes everybody out there happier, when I’m advocating for it, I won’t take it. I won’t take any of the money, I won’t take any of the benefits. I won’t take any of the insurance or anything like that. I don’t want that to be the reason why I’m doing any of this. I want them to have it because I found a way of life that I can manage. But I don’t want anybody ever to feel as miserable or be at a place that I was. So if that makes everybody happy — and knows it’s not for a selfish reason on my part — maybe we find a way to move forward and start actually listening to what somebody has to say rather than thinking that there’s a personal agenda to it. I don’t need any of it. I don’t want any of it.
You’re living in reality. You’re talking to these former players. You’re in the underbelly of the NFL. You’ve seen what guys are going through. After Vincent Jackson died, when we talked in 2021, you said you had several conversations with players. They were reaching out to you one by one. You’re trying to do what you can. It’s like there’s this whole other world once the whistle stops.
Leaf: But it’s still a stigma. They reached out to me privately. They didn’t say anything publicly.
The NFL wants to ignore this world.
Leaf: Yeah, that’s still the crazy stigma of it. The fear of someone knowing you may need help is worse than getting the help that you need. And that’s the problem: the stigma. The NFL helps perpetuate the stigma because they show players as gladiators and all of those things. And so I think they have a real hand in perpetrating that stigma. But that’s the thing that bothers me the most. Some of them are incredibly good football players who could have an incredible impact. And I’m like, “You can tell everybody this, and it’s OK. No one’s going to judge you.” You think somebody will judge you, but no one’s going to judge you for it. In fact, you may actually be viewed as stronger than you ever have been seen before.”
What are you hearing? What does this world really look like that isn’t necessarily going to be broadcasted on state-run TV.
Leaf: The guys who’ve reached out to me are having suicidal ideation. Their belief is they’re better off not being here. And I just have to grab a hold of ‘em and say, “You don’t understand the value that you have, man. You have no idea. You could move mountains 100 times what you did as a football player. It just doesn’t register because you don’t understand your identity outside the uniform. What does it look like when that uniform comes off? Who are you?” I was there. I was exactly there, so I know what that is. When you find purpose outside the great game of football, you won’t believe how great the game of football becomes to you. I think that speaks directly to how the game of football has become a part of my life again. There was a time where I resented it and it was toxic, but that wasn’t the game. It was me. And so when I found purpose outside of that, the game came back to me. I call games every weekend. I was at Georgia-Alabama this last weekend. What a great football game. I’m going to be calling some NFL games here later in the year. I love the game of football. And so I think that couldn’t be a truer statement that — when you find purpose outside of it and you’re not tied up to the identity of it — the game of football actually gets greater and comes back to you in a way that is so much more plentiful in your life.
I always hesitate using military as a comparison, but there are a lot of similarities, and I know you’ve done work trying to kind of connect these two thoughts with Nate Boyer. There is something to, “You have a sense of purpose. You’re very regimented. You’ve got brothers out there.” Then, you leave that world, you’re ejected into society and it’s hard for everybody.
Leaf: Well, they’re very similar in, “Who are you when the uniform comes off?” That’s about it. We sacrifice our bodies a little bit. Don’t get it twisted. We are never sacrificing what those men and women do, and then they come home to propaganda unfortunately. Instead of the real thing of actually being celebrated. My Dad’s a really good example. My father was a two-tour Vietnam veteran. He came home, but it was different then. He came home and he got spit on, and it wasn’t even his choice. He got drafted. He didn’t choose to go over there and to watch him walk through it was hard. I didn’t get to see it when it was actually happening, but I felt the reverberation down the line because he showed no emotion. I never saw him cry. And the identity of it was different for him. The identity was “I’m not supposed to celebrate this.” Until years later, when I was able to watch him and walk him through a session with some former combat vets and the pride that exists there. The shaming that comes with it.
So how do you deal with it in so many different ways? And we see the same thing with our combat veterans every day. When they come home, who are they? What are they supposed to do? Where’s the support? Where’s my brothers? Where’s that locker room again that I lived in? And their immediate unfortunate reaction to that is, “I’m nothing. I’m nothing without my brothers, this uniform and that. And so just like guys that leave the league or college football or high school football, it doesn’t matter what age, right? There’s a transition. Especially if you grow up in a town where football’s an institution and you’ve been doing it since you were in grade school and you get to high school and you’re a state champion and things like that. But then it ends there. There’s a real identity crisis that comes with that stuff. This isn’t just limited to this, that or the other or being a professional football player. That’s just the next level up. Just a couple more years of continuing and pressurizing and compacting that identity as a football player.
Whether that is a successful football player or a shamed football player, they both have the same kind of consequences when you walk out in terms of transition. A guy that walks out after playing 20 years and winning three Super Bowls or something, still doesn’t think he did enough. I’ve talked to those men. They believe they didn’t do enough. They believe there’s still something out there that they didn’t get it done and they’ve been walked out of the league — not on their own terms. And so it’s a transition regardless.
And nobody’s reclaimed their identity quite like Ryan Leaf.
Leaf: You know what’s the funniest? This is the craziest thing. And when I started speaking it into existence, I almost didn’t believe it. I’m more confident as a human being now with all the baggage, all the shit, all that stuff than I ever was as a starting quarterback. College, NFL. I can’t believe that’s the truth. But I think it all boils down to I love the guy I see in the mirror and I know the guy I see in the mirror is real. That’s who I am. That’s what I’m about. Everybody knows my stuff. There’s no ammo out there anywhere to worry about anything. I can just go to work. I can go to play, I can go to school, I can go anywhere. And I’m OK with who I am regardless of what anybody else has to say, think or do. It’s none of my business. I can be truthful. I can live in my truth and I can speak truth to power and not worry about it because guess what? You can rip me to the ground and take me back to a place where I have nothing and I’ll rise back up. I know I can do it now, and I have the people around me that will support me no matter what. Don’t get me wrong. I stick my foot in my mouth sometimes and there’s consequences to that. But I know that to be true.
Aside the football stuff — which you’ve owned, which I love the podcast, you called it “Bust,” and you relive all of that. But from depression… to painkiller addiction… to jail time… to suicide attempt. Taking that dull knife. You’re alive and that’s a miracle itself. But for those who maybe aren’t familiar with everything you’ve been through since your career wrapped up, where would you even begin? What were those lowest moments?
Leaf: I mean, drug addict. Junkie who went to prison figured out how to be of service to another person while in prison, which gave you hope for when you walked out. And then you just started at the bottom and you made it about other people and you found out that when you make it about other people, your life gets better. When your whole life, you believed as a narcissist that for your life to get better, it had to be about you. I don’t know if this works for everybody, but it works for me. When I make it about other people, my life gets better. Also, when I make it about other people, I take myself out of the equation. Whatever issues I’m going through and things like that, I am able to have real clarity and go, “Ryan, you’re not a victim. It’s not that bad. You’re going to be OK.’ And that lifestyle has given me everything. It’s given me two children, a wonderful partner, a business, our dream home, purposeful work with the Menninger Clinic. I just started a new venture with a group called “The Last Mile.” It is a nonprofit organization that puts educational programming in prisons. Not just this lipstick on a pig type of stuff. One of the programs is actually coding, where we’re teaching inmates how to code so when they get out, they can actually transition into the real workforce because technology changes so much in a matter of three years, like the length of time I was in there. I actually started that job yesterday and it comes with a Sirius XM radio show called “The Last Mile with Ryan Leaf.” That should start up here in the next Saturday or so on Triumph Radio on Sirius XM.
And then it will also entail me traveling the country and going into prisons: San Quentin, Sing Sing, places like that where we’re talking about real life-or-death situations when these guys and gals get out trying to find a future because you just don’t have any hope and we want to give them a semblance of hope. If that isn’t exactly matching up with what my values are, I don’t know what is. And so that’s what this life’s given me. And we’re coming up on 10 years. It hasn’t even been a decade. So Dec. 3 will be 10 years that I got out. Then years ago today, I was sitting in a prison cell still. And to think that I have what I have right now — if you would’ve told me that 10 years ago — I would’ve said you are the craziest person I know.
You’re changing lives, but I would imagine for a while, all of these memories and near-death experiences and just being at your lowest of lows and being in prison, it’d be easy to bury that forever and not want to touch it because — if you go to that place — it might make you feel a certain way. When was that transition to “No, I got to relive the shit, own the shit because I’m going to help people. I can change lives. This is my purpose in the world.” Do you know when that shift happened?
Leaf: You never experience that. You get shown that, and my sponsor showed me that. He used this line when I started working with some younger guys and they would leave after a few of the things we were working on when we started kind of getting into the real nitty-gritty of the work, the down and dirty of the work — really taking a look at yourself — and owning the things that you’ve done. And I remember coming to him about it, I’m like, “I was working with another guy and he up and left and I haven’t seen him,” and everything like that. And he goes, Ryan, I’ve worked with 132 guys and I’m 132 for 132. And I just thought to myself, “Of course you are. You are the epitome of recovery.” He had at the time, 35 years sober. His story is crazy, man. He used to be a music executive in the 60s and 70s and there’s some fun ones there.
And he said, “I’ve worked with 132 guys and I haven’t drank once.” And that made sense that it’s about what you do as an example and you can’t control what somebody else does with that information. And he said, “We are a lighthouse, Ryan. And you don’t see lighthouses running around the harbor looking for boats. You root yourself foundationally in the rocks as a safe harbor for someone else. And to do that, you have to be willing — in the worst possible weather imaginable — to stand out against the storm and just shine a light out to those boats that are in need.” It’s an unbelievable metaphor. I think it speaks directly to what individuals in recovery and what myself does when we stand up and rip the scabs off or the Band-Aid off in front of a bunch of people, not worrying that maybe everybody in that room may go, “That dude’s full of shit,” because there might be one. There might be one person. As I’ve learned, every human life is precious.
I’m no more important or less important than anybody else. Either is anybody else. If you put Peyton Manning right there, Peyton Manning’s no more important or less important than the junkie on the corner. And I know in our society, people don’t associate that the same way. It’s the truth. Each life is just as precious. And until we actually view human beings through that lens, it’s going to be a continued fight. That’s why I do it. No other reason other than I know that it has purpose. And I see that when people reach out. Sometimes, it’s crazy where someone will heard me on a radio show or someone will have heard me on your podcast, and that will be enough to give them the hope. And then I’ll get a message three years later, literally three years later, and it’ll say, “Hey, I heard you on Ty Dunne’s podcast, and I went and sought treatment, man, and I just want to tell you I’m three years sober. I’m thriving. I’m a teacher at this school.” Where would I have had that kind of influence or purpose if I had been a really good quarterback? It’s just the relatability of it is a different animal. I might be the luckiest guy on the planet to tell you the truth. Seriously. Go find someone who has it better than me. I doubt you can find that person. I really doubt you can.
You’re in prison and you’re developing that relationship. You’re helping somebody. (Note: With the urging of his prison roommate, Leaf taught inmates how to read.)
Leaf: Well, you don’t know it. I mean, I’m telling you right now, bro. You don’t see it when it’s happening. You never know what’s going on. It’s just this thing you do and then — all of a sudden — there’s some healthy consequences that come from it. But I’m telling you, bro, it’s not like I walked back to my cell the night after helping that guy for the first time and went, “Ah! I got this shit figured out. My life’s going to be on Easy Street from this point on.” I mean, you have no idea. And then, hey, listen, I had a semblance of hope when I walked out. After spending the first night in a real bed, my first night out, I wake up the next morning and sitting at the counter of my parents’ house and the newspaper’s out there, and I look through it and there’s a cartoon in it. The cartoon is a big old goofy picture of me and it says, “Lock up your medicine cabinets, Ryan Leaf’s out.” That’s my hometown newspaper. And my immediate reaction is, “Oh yeah, I forgot. I’m a piece of shit, and this is what it's going to be like the rest of my life. What’s the point?” And my muscle memory went right back to, “You just can’t feel this. You need to go numb it out.” And my grandfather had just had some sort of knee surgery or something like that, and I really was in the car driving towards his house when I disassociated and kind of went, “OK, what are you doing? What worked in prison? What changed? And it was about helping other people. So OK, I’m going to go to the mission. So I flipped the U’y and I went to the mission — the homeless shelter — and I started to be of service there. And I didn’t really do much. A lot of times I just sat down next to these guys and gals and let them talk. So they felt heard and seen.
You were going to break in and feed your addiction to numb the pain?
Leaf: Oh God, yeah. The hope that was there, that little bit of it that I had developed while in prison doing that work? It was dashed immediately with that cartoon because I’m just like, “Oh yeah, I forgot.” The hope gave me promise to the idea that I was a flawed human being trying to be better every day. But the cartoon immediately brought back me to the place of like, “Oh yeah, you bust, felon, junkie, you piece of shit. That’s what you are. That’s how everybody sees you. You are never going to have a semblance of a positive or healthy life. Just numb it. You love that space. Remember how great that space was three years ago? That’s where you need to be.” And that’s what the disease does. It just does these crazy-ass pushups when you’re not in it. And when it has its opportunity, it’s jacked and it’s ready to go. And so you better have a toolbox. You better have a foundation set in place to battle that when it does.
Have you had more of those moments then over time?
Leaf: Not from that feeling, but just the brain disease of it. About two years ago, I was coming up on 11 years sober, and my father-in-law was visiting. He’s been dealing with some health issues and he was talking at the dinner table. And of course, he doesn’t understand. He mentioned one of the new painkillers he was on and he was talking to his daughter. He’s trying to tell his daughter about how “This is the new medication I’m on.” I heard something and it hit a spot in my brain of “What is that?” I didn’t ask. I went into the office later that night and I looked it up and it was like an incredibly strong painkiller. And it was in my house. And before I knew it, I was walking around the backside of the house coming down the stairs to the guest house there where he was staying. And a good thing for me, my wife knows me because I see her bee-lining across the courtyard walking in and going, “What are you doing?” She literally saved my life. The decision was made. It was done. I had relapsed in my mind, so it was done. And so she essentially saved my life because it wouldn’t have been a one-time thing. That’s not how it works. You take it. You play the tape through. Playing the tape through for me is going back to prison. Most likely dead. And so she saved my life.
And it’s OK that I’m telling people this and that this happened. It’s OK that you’re flawed and you feel that way. You’re a human being. That’s the way it works. I’m not perfect. Just because I live in recovery now and I am honest and transparent talking about this, whether or not people want to hold me up on a pedestal, it’s not my pedestal. It’s the one they want to attach me to. I’m still the guy that is incredibly flawed.
I think for the first year there was a lot of those moments, but there hadn’t been any for a long, long time. And this one popped up. But the difference is, when it did, my new family — the new family that I chose — didn’t freak out. And that was the biggest issue about my family of origin. They freaked out any time anything happened. And you tried to cover up and lie and there was never anything solution-based behind it. And it’s really easy. We actually talked about it. My father-in-law was like, “Should I stay at a hotel?” I love my father-in-law and I want him at the house with us when he’s here. He’s funny. He loves his grandkids. Of course, I want him here. So we came up with the simplest of plans. We got on Amazon and ordered an Rx safe and he holds the key and my wife holds the key when he visits. And I never thought about it again. He’s stayed with us 15 times since then and I haven’t thought about it since. One of the easiest and simplest solutions in that moment just because we could have a real conversation about it, and I wasn’t shamed for doing it, for attempting to live with this disease.
When it comes to those painkillers, it’s the NFL, it’s football. If you’re going to play, if you’re going to exist in this profession, you’ve got to take painkillers when you’re going through certain things. We had Brett Favre on multiple podcasts last year talking about this all. How culpable is the league with everything that you went through?
Leaf: Don’t forget, Purdue Pharma had gone to the FDA and got them to have the text in the pamphlet for doctors saying it was not addictive. So the doctors go off of that. They thought they were prescribing something that was non-addictive. Now, when they firmly found out that it was then do they become complicit?
I wanted to play each and every week. I was open to taking the Toradol shots. I was OK with being handed the Vicodin. Mainly because I was in pain and it made me feel better. I don’t think people understand the effect the opiate painkiller has on your brain. I mean, it restructures it. It gets ahold of these receptors in your brain and your brain may be the largest muscle in your body. And I know people out there are going to say “It’s not a muscle.” Well, I think it is, whether or not you want to categorize it as that. But it affects your brain greatly. And I don’t fault doctors, especially ones that have went to med school a long time ago where they spent roughly four hours in the four years of med school on addiction and drug seeking and things like that. They have no idea.
But when doctors repeatedly started to get in trouble and I got to view it and I didn’t know about it until after the fact. Like Dr. Chow, David Chao. The dude is now this NFL injury doctor or something. He’s on SiriusXM. Every time I see him on any sort of broadcast, I’m always quick to add like, “Weren’t you the doctor that kept prescribing your superior Dr. Losse pain meds? Weren’t you the one that continued to treat Junior Seau? How many prescription bottles in Junior’s medicine cabinet when he died had your name on it, Dr. Chao? I think there’s just doctors that are bad doctors. He seemed a bit of a star-fucker. He was like, “You were an awesome football player.” He would do anything and everything for you.
You still have those people that exist in this league around medicating players and doing whatever is needed to get a player to play and things like that. And that’s the scariest part in all this. Because these drugs kill and they wreck lives and families. And then when you become addicted to it and you can’t get it from this doctor anymore because maybe you’re a bad player and he’s not going to shell out meds to you anymore because you are not the star, you then — because you are a full-blown addict and your tolerance is high and addicted — you go try to find it somewhere else. And now with the world of fentanyl that exists in counterfeit pills, you’re gone. You may take one pill one time that’s not a real one from a pharmacy and you overdose and die. And so, you’re just playing with such fire with this kind of medication.
I’m not a proponent for any sort of drug that alters your mood. If you have to take a drug to be able to play your sport, then you probably shouldn’t play your sport. But the fact that marijuana was suspendable and opioid positive tests weren’t is a sham. That is propaganda. That is stigma through and through. The idea of cannabis or CBD being a worse affliction than it is an opiate that you're taking. I think we’re coming a long way. You don’t hear much about it anymore. But then again, every quarter when I’m down at the Menninger Clinic, I have interactions with former players, some very, very recent former players that open up and say it’s still very prevalent to get you out there to get to play.
How severe is the problem with retirees — recent retirees — that were like you, that were taking Vicodin to get through a practice, a game. Is it prevalent?
Leaf: It’s an excuse. Bones had to be coming out of our bodies for us not to play, before we even started being handed these drugs. I didn’t get a drug in college and I got hurt just as much as I did in the NFL. OK? We like how it makes us feel and how it makes us feel is nothing. We just want to be numb. We want to be numb and we want to play and we want to be adored and we want to be rolling around in money. That’s who we are. And that sucks to know that’s the truth a lot of the times. So I think really it’s a reprieve. So when we retire and that goes away, it’s a real emotional affliction that we’re attaching it to. And I shouldn't be saying “we.” This is me. I’ve seen it be the case with others, but I do not want to ever speak for anybody else when it comes to this. That’s how I effectively treated mine.
Whatever you’re going through — whether it’s painkillers or depression, suicidal thoughts, anything — there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You can find hope in this life after those years of being a football player. Is that really what drives you?
Leaf: You can if you’re willing to do the hard work and it is. It’s hard. It’s super hard work, but I would imagine it is rewarding as standing there holding the Lombardi Trophy. If not more. I would say more. But then again, I’ve never held the Lombardi Trophy.
And that’s being a Dad, calling these games, helping people at the clinic down there in Houston.
Leaf: Walking into prisons, man. That’s super powerful and I just recently did it at the Montana State Prison where I was incarcerated. It was the first time I walked back in through those doors and I was doing a speaking event at the Big Sky Kickoff luncheon and there was some media there and they knew that I was going to do this. They were asking me the question about how I felt. Because there was some anxiety around it for me and the knowledge that there was still some guards there that were there when I was there that were horrible people. But it gave me a really good opportunity to get outside myself and go, “Well, this has nothing to do about you, Ryan. This has everything to do about those men that are in this program there that you’re going to speak to.”
I’m so glad that the media asked me those questions. I don’t know if I would’ve actually done the work and understood it and then may have gone in there with a much different mindset and perspective and been resentful and wouldn’t have been able to connect with the individuals that I needed to connect with. Instead, I walked in there going, “This has nothing to do with you — at all. How you feel. What this meant. Anything like that. This has everything to do with the individuals that are part of this program that are trying to find and get what you now have, Ryan.” And so that was a really good reminder when I went in to do that.
What is going through your mind as you’re walking into that prison and you’re seeing those guards?
Leaf: I brought my wife with me. We drove by the intake facility where you spend anywhere from 50 to 120 days locked up, 23 to 24 hours figuring out where they’re going to place you, where your threat level is, where they’re going to place you. Yeah, it’s right there. The razor wire. The little track that we could walk around on for that one hour that we were outside our cell. It was weird. My wife took some pictures. I got a cool couple of pictures of me driving and she’s got the prison in the background. You can see the razor wire through the window while I’m driving. It’s crazy.
What should the NFL do? How can the league help with all of this?
Leaf: We have to do it ourselves. They’ve proven that they’re not going to help us, so me, former players, we have to be there for one another all the time because they’re not going to do anything. At all. And so, it’s our responsibility. And I also can’t be critical of them anymore because they’ve already showed us who they are. So, it doesn’t benefit me to be critical of them anymore. It’s not going to move the needle. Instead, I’m going to put all that energy into trying to be a resource for current and former players. What’s amazing now is a lot of the current players, they don’t know me as the bust or even maybe as the guy that went to prison. They’ve all heard of me now as the analyst and a guy that shows up on Good Morning Football on the NFL’s network and is an advocate for the player, rather than stumping for the league. That’s the guy they know. And it’s amazing. I call games on Sunday Night Football and I’m down on the field there and guys will walk up to me and they either heard me speak to them while they were in college at their university or they know me from that and they come up and talk to me about that. How cool is that? That’s what I’m known for now.
Full Video & Audio:
How the NFL Works, S1 E2: Life After Football with Ryan Leaf
The underbelly of this league is often gruesome.
That light house analogy will stick with me for a long time. Thanks for letting Ryan share his story and hard earned wisdom.
5,years sober and this is the stuff that keeps me that way, that and trying to do the same kind of work in my sphere of the world. This is a real inspiration to read! Learned so much wisdom from Ryan. Thank you!