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Part 4, RB: How special are Breece Hall and Kenneth Walker?
It's the annual debate. How high should you draft a running back? Two stand out above all else in 2022. Also, inside: Why speed is in the eye of the beholder.
This is the 38th year Bob McGinn has written an NFL draft series. Previously, it appeared in the Green Bay Press-Gazette (1985-’91), the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (1992-’17), BobMcGinnFootball.com (2018-’19) and The Athletic (2020-’21). Until 2014, personnel people often were quoted by name. The series reluctantly adopted an all-anonymous format in 2015 at the request of most scouts … The 12-minute, 50-question Wonderlic test was not administered at the NFL scouting combine this year, possibly the first time it wasn’t included in the schedule. Thus, players generally took the test at spring timing days in 2021 or at pro days in the past two months. The NFL average score is about 19.
Today: running backs.
The 4.6 running back is persona non grata in some NFL draft rooms. Maybe he’s not off the draft board, but it’s often understood from the GM on down that their team doesn’t want him.
Iowa State’s Breece Hall and Michigan State’s Kenneth Walker are consensus choices as the leading backs this year. They ran their 40’s in the low-to-mid 4.4s.
Hall and Walker combined for 15 of 17 first-place votes cast by scouts for the best back in the draft. They amassed 57% of the total points allocated in the 1-2-3-4-5 poll, leaving 43% of the scraps to the others.
“It’s Breece Hall and everybody else,” said an AFC executive in personnel who voted 1-2 for Hall-Walker, one of 13 of 17 scouts that placed those two players at the top of his ballot. “It’s Breece Hall and then just a bunch of guys.”
Six of the 10 backs this year ran in the 4.4s, and a seventh clocked 4.5 flat. Everyone wants a player that won’t be caught from behind if he can skip past the middle safety. A 65-yard touchdown run can be decisive whereas a 30-yard gain usually isn’t.
Yet, for all the emphasis on speed in today’s game, that back with the modest 40 need not embark upon another career just yet.
“These backs that run 4.6, you can’t dismiss them because they’re 4.6,” one personnel man said. “A back can get by with 4.6 if he’s got the instincts and the burst.”
Let’s define a 4.6 back. Some teams use a player’s fastest time as his official time. My method generally is to average the hand-held times from the combine and pro days. Using my system, I defined a 4.6 back as players that ran between 4.56 and 4.65.
Of my top 27 backs this year, 11 fit the description of a 4.6 back. Ten played in Power 5 conferences, and the 11th played for a major independent.
LSU’s Ty Davis-Price wasn’t part of the group because he ran 4.53. He’s No. 13 on my list. But, like the majority of the 11, he has the ability to flourish in the NFL.
An AFC personnel director said the 15th back in this draft could turn out to be the best of the class “especially if the guy goes to an offense that matches him physically. Davis-Price is another one who shows everything you want. Might not be a great fit for an outside zone, but it would not shock me at all if he got 1,000 yards.”
Our “Gang of 4.6” included Isaiah Spiller (4.63), Brian Robinson (4.60), Dameon Pierce (4.61), Snoop Conner (4.64), ZaQuandre White (4.62), Tyler Allgeier (4.65), Keaontay Ingram (4.59), Jashaun Corbin (4.60), Zonovan Knight (4.56) and Kennedy Brooks (4.60). Hassan Haskins didn’t run a 40, but based on the estimate of three scouts let’s include him with an assigned time of 4.65.
Ron Wolf, the Hall of Fame general manager and scout for four teams from 1963-’01, evaluated hundreds of 4.6 backs.
“Speed is always a factor but backs are a unique position so it really didn’t bother me,” said Wolf. “To me, if you have the capability, if you were good in college, you will get yardage up here in the big leagues. I’m not talking about 4.8, 4.7, or if you played against (lower competition).”
Wolf continued: “We had special criteria. They had to be able to pass protect, catch the ball and run, and, in some instances, run block. What did I look for? Results.”
Our “Gang of 4.6” includes five players with at least 3,000 yards from scrimmage in their careers and four with at least 2,000. Five have rushed for 1,000 yards in a season.
Before anyone would care to write off anyone in the group, consider for a moment this list of 20 backs with 4.6 speed that I culled from my files covering the last 10 drafts.
Le’Veon Bell (4.57) and Eddie Lacy (4.59) in 2013.
Carlos Hyde (4.61) and James White (4.58) in 2014.
Mike Davis (4.56) in 2015.
Jordan Howard (4.59) in 2016.
Alvin Kamara (4.59), Kareem Hunt (4.59), James Conner (4.64), Aaron Jones (4.58) and Jamaal Williams (4.56) in 2017.
Josh Jacobs (4.63), David Montgomery (4.59), Darrell Henderson (4.58) and Devin Singletary (4.65) in 2019.
Clyde Edwards-Helaire (4.59), Zack Moss (4.62) and James Robinson (4.64) in 2020.
Javonte Williams (4.56) and Rhamondre Stevenson (4.64) in 2021.
Of those 20 backs, eight have made at least one Pro Bowl, eight have at least 150 receptions and eight have rushed for 1,000 yards in a season.
The all-time 4.6 back is the all-time leading rusher, Emmitt Smith. That’s about what Wolf remembered him running out of Florida in 1990.
“He had just uncanny balance and he was tough,” said Wolf. “Thing about him, he trusted that the hole was going to be there.”
In the poll of scouts, with a first-place worth 5 points, a second-place vote worth 4 and so on, Hall led with 73 points and eight firsts compared to Walker’s 71 points and seven firsts.
Following, in order, were Isaiah Spiller (21), Brian Robinson (20), James Cook (16), Dameon Pierce (13, one first), Zamir White (nine), Jerome Ford (eight), Ty Chandler (seven, one first), Rachaad White (seven), Ty Davis-Price (three), Kyren Williams (three), Hassan Haskins (two) and Pierre Strong (two).
Pierce, one of those 4.6 backs, will find at least one team that won’t allow his inauspicious 40 to be held against him.
“I don’t care about that,” an NFC exec said. “He’s a starter.”
RANKING THE RUNNING BACKS
1. BREECE HALL, Iowa State (5-11, 218, 4.42, 1-2): Third-year junior with 30 starts in 36 games. “He’s got kind of a weird, slithering, slashing running style,” one scout said. “He’s not really an attacker. There’s some Le’Veon Bell to him … He’s gets through the line of scrimmage fast, he’s elusive and he has long speed. He’s good enough as a receiver. He’s not going to be dynamite right out of the gate but he’ll be a starter.” Led the position in the vertical jump (40 inches) and tied for the largest hands (9 ¾ inches). “He’s got that natural pick-and-slide style,” a second scout said. “He’s got a chance to be a starter as a first- and second-down guy. Don’t ever think he’ll be great. Don’t ever think he’ll be paid a lot of money.” Finished with 718 carries for 3,941 yards (5.5-yard average) and 50 TDs to go with 82 receptions. His cousin is 49ers great RB Roger Craig. “For a big running back he has good feet through the hole,” said a third scout. “He’s not a stumblebum. He can see it and make in-line cuts. He can drop his weight and accelerate again. I put him ahead of Walker because of his size and vision as a runner.” Scored 21 on the Wonderlic. “He’s just not a natural runner,” a fourth scout said. “He just can’t get out of the backfield. He kind of jumps around. Doesn’t have really good vision or burst. Not strong. Kind of an awkward athlete. If there’s a crease he can get up in there. Even with that he doesn’t have true home-run speed.” From Wichita, Kan.
2. KENNETH WALKER, Michigan State (5-9, 209, 4.44, 1-2): Sixth in the Heisman Trophy voting after finishing second in FBS rushing with 1,636 (6.2) in his first and only season as a Spartan. “Imagine,” one scout said. “He’s not a starter at Wake Forest and he goes to Michigan State and becomes a star. People didn’t know who the f--- he was. Great kid, good family, you’ll never have an issue with him. He’s not the big back but he can play. If you hold up in the Big Ten, you’re going to hold up in the NFL.” Rushed for 579 yards in each of his two seasons as a Demon Deacon. Finished collegiate career with 480 carries for 2,794 (5.8) and 35 TDs. Had just 19 receptions. “Hard runner, physical,” another scout said. “Speed, acceleration, vision and elusiveness. He can play on all downs. Contributes immediately. Needs to improve his pass pro but wasn’t asked to do that much. Day 1 starter. They speak really highly of him.” Ran a much faster 40 than some personnel people expected. “That (4.44) shocked me,” a third scout said. “As a runner, he’s a poor man’s Ray Rice. People questioned Ray Rice’s speed, too, and all he did was produce. I don’t see Kenneth Walker as an elite starting back. You’re winning with a 1A and a 1B usually. I think Kenneth Walker can be a 1B. He has a sneaky ability to break one even though I still don’t see that play speed. Where he’s going to need some work is in the passing game. Just doesn’t have a lot of experience. I don’t think he can play on all three downs; he might be able to graduate to it. He’s a really good red-zone runner because of his instincts and short-area quickness. He scores touchdowns.” Wonderlic of 14. “He’s about as good a football player as you want,” said a fourth scout. “He’s a small target and he’s tiny as a pass blocker. When he gets in a blocking stance he’s 5-3 against a 6-3, 6-4, 6-5, 6-6 defensive end or linebacker and there’s issues. The quarterback doesn’t want to turn around and see some Texas midget going to block the rush end. They feel better with a bigger guy in there. I think he’s more of a second-rounder.” From Arlington, Texas.
3. ISAIAH SPILLER, Texas A&M (6-0 ½, 217, 4.62, 2-3): Third-year junior with 29 starts in 35 games. “There’s a little bit of LeSean McCoy to his style,” one scout said. “Really good vision. Really elusive. Got really good feet. Slithery, deceptively strong. Not a great long speed guy but neither was McCoy, and McCoy scored a shitload of touchdowns.” Finished with 541 carries for 2,993 yards (5.5) and 25 TDs along with 74 receptions. Alternated with speedy freshman Devon Achane in 2021. “He’s just a guy,” a second scout said. “Little bit of quickness, little bit of vision. Decent hands. Narrow-based runner gets tackled easily. Not a lot of juice or elusiveness.” Had six career fumbles. “He has a chance to ascend into a starter in time,” said a third scout. “He’s good at a lot of things but he’s not elite in any category.” From Spring, Texas.
4. BRIAN ROBINSON, Alabama (6-1 ½, 224, 4.60, 3): Increased his rushing total every year: 165 to 272 to 441 to 483 to 1,343. “Pad-level, extra-yardage guy,” one scout said. “Makes his own hole with no blockers against a linebacker. Can move the chains because of his strength but also has cutback ability. Downhill power with wide speed. Surprisingly fast for that size. Can get the edge quickly. Good patience to find the hole and accelerate on zone plays.” Had to wait his turn behind Bo Scarbrough, Damien Harris, Josh Jacobs and Najee Harris. “They crushed him for five years and he came back for a sixth year,” a second scout said. “Had a pretty decent season but you can’t trust him. Not overly sharp (Wonderlic of 14). Just a runner only.” Finished with 545 carries for 2,704 (5.0) and 29 TDs to go with 52 receptions. “He is what he is,” a third scout said. “He’s a product of that offense. He runs hard. He’s a big guy. He’s got a little bit of speed. He’s not a sure-fire starter. He’s a quality backup.” Born and raised near campus in Tuscaloosa. “Just a run-of-the-mill, straight-line, gets-what’s-blocked kind of runner,” said a fourth scout. “You like the way he runs but he’s just not a supremely talented guy. Fourth round.”
5. JAMES COOK, Georgia (5-11, 204, 4.48, 3): Played 50 games, starting merely six. Played mostly on passing downs behind Zamir White. “They split him out in motion as a receiver,” said one scout. “Average size, but he’s athletic and explosive with acceleration and good speed. He can exploit a crease on inside runs. Can jump cut with quick feet and balance. He’s got the speed to get outside. Sudden in space. Natural hands. Ripped off an 82-yard run against Alabama in 2020. He ran by guys that had pursuit angles on him. His issue is pass protection. He’s not real big.” His brother, Dalvin, is the Vikings’ franchise RB. “He gets a lot of play because of it but he’s nowhere near Dalvin Cook,” said a second scout. “He can catch out of the backfield. I can see somebody taking him as a third-down back.” Finished with 230 carries for 1,503 (6.5) and 14 TDs plus 67 catches. “He may not be a true No. 1 running back but as a 1B he can do things in the passing game,” said a third scout. “He’d be a good, solid rotational guy that will make some plays.” From Miami.
6. DAMEON PIERCE, Florida (5-9 ½, 224, 4.61, 3): In four seasons he never carried more than 106 times. “When he was in the game, this kid runs downhill with purpose,” said one scout. “He’s got a low center of gravity. He’s got strong leg drive and contact balance. He’s got good vision on inside runs and is real patient on outside runs. He squares up in pass pro and controls the defender. He’s got reliable hands. The big question is top-end speed. I just like the makeup of this guy. He has special-team value. He was on (three) teams. As a minimum, he’s a good No. 2 and possible starter. He’s a banger. He looks similar to James Robinson in Jacksonville. Stocky, just doesn’t have that third gear.” Finished with 329 carries for 1,806 (5.5) and 23 TDs with 45 receptions. Wonderlic of 23 was second highest among the top 13 backs. “He runs with passion and vengeance,” another scout said. “Catches the shit out of the ball. Great contact balance.” From Bainbridge, Ga.
7. ZAMIR WHITE, Georgia (5-11 ½, 217, 4.46, 3): Fourth-year junior had 78 rushes in 2019 before starting the past two years. “Muscled-up, no-nonsense runner,” said one scout. “Pressed the line of scrimmage quickly, finds a hole and makes decisive cuts. Avoids backfield penetration and gets north and south. Can run through defenders. You saw his speed on some long runs. Has the ability to close out a game in 4-minute by just pounding the rock. Wasn’t widely used in the passing game but showed reliable hands. Scans and shows awareness in pass pro and squares up to the target.” Exited on passing downs for Cook, catching just 17 passes in his career. Finished with 382 carries for 2,043 (5.3) and 25 TDs. Suffered a torn right ACL in November 2017 and a torn left ACL nine months later. “He’s really similar to Brian Robinson,” said another scout. “The concern is this guy has had two ACLs. Tough between-the-tackles guy. Gives you his all. Non-factor in the pass game.” His 10-8 broad jump led the position. “I don’t think he’s anything special,” a third scout said. “He was productive in a high level of comp. I thought his run instincts were off. He didn’t see things quick. But teams are looking for speed and he can run (fast).” From Laurinburg, N.C.
8. JEROME FORD, Cincinnati (5-10 ½, 211, 4.49, 3-4): Carried 31 times in 2018-’19 at Alabama before shuffling to Cincinnati. “He sat behind a guy (Gerrid Doaks) that wasn’t as good as him (in 2020) and, when he got a chance, he produced,” one scout said. “He’s a fun player. He’s fast, runs hard, strong. He could play on all three downs right now. He’s not a special No. 1 but he could be a No. 1. Football character’s really good. The position gets pushed down but he’s a second-round talent.” Had a 1,319-yard season in ’21 as the Bearcats reached the CFP semifinals. Finished with 318 carries for 1,953 (6.1) and 30 TDs to go with 31 receptions. “He’s got a chance to be a home-run hitter,” another scout said. “He’s got a big-play trait with his speed.” Led the top 25 backs on the Wonderlic with a 28. “I’d take him over Zamir White,” a third scout said. “The run instincts were good but nothing special. He’s got good hands. Not a blocker. He’ll go late 3, at least early 4 with that kind of size and speed.” From Tampa.
9. RACHAAD WHITE, Arizona State (6-0 ½, 215, 4.50, 3-4): Redshirted at Division II Nebraska-Kearney in 2017 before toiling for two years at a junior college. Two-year starter for the Sun Devils. “He’s a great receiver,” said one scout. “During the year they alternated him until they realized what they had later on in the season. He can catch the heck out of the ball. Explosive runner with excellent speed.” Caught 43 passes as a senior for a 10.6 average. “His strengths are vision, patience, balance, body control, speed and good hands,” a second scout said. “He has the ability to run routes from different spots. He can work from the backfield or you can line him up wide and he can do receiver stuff.” Finished with 224 carries for 1,426 (6.4) and 20 TDs plus 51 receptions. “He probably was the best back at the Senior Bowl,” a third scout said. “Probably fourth round. Pretty decent player.” From Kansas City.
10. PIERRE STRONG, South Dakota State (5-11 ½, 203, 4.39, 4): Redshirted in 2017 before starting 34 of 48 games from 2018-’21. “He ran fast,” one scout said. “In the passing game he has a chance. He’s super productive. When they played up a level (Colorado State, ’21) he showed up. There’s a physical skill set there that can be developed.” Ran the fastest 40 of the top 30 backs. “He’s a much better player than James Robinson with Jacksonville was out of that league (Missouri Valley),” a second scout said. “Had some long touchdown runs. Sometimes he just doesn’t hit the hole. He searches, likes to bounce. Effective short receiver. Average pass blocker.” Finished with 631 carries for 4,527 (7.2) and 40 TDs along with 62 receptions. From Little Rock, Ark.
11. HASSAN HASKINS, Michigan (6-1 11/2, 227, no 40, 4-5): Voted the Wolverines’ toughest player by his teammates. “Love that guy,” one scout said. “I want him on my team. Now he ain’t a starter but, on the goal-line or when the shit gets rough, I want him.” Fourth-year junior. “Workhorse with more quickness and burst than one would expect,” said a second scout. “He has some juke on the second level. He’s physical in his pass protection. Has strong legs to get extra. He has good hands but not a real receiving threat consistently. I would rather have him stay in and block. If he’s fast enough to play on teams he would (make it).” Finished with 452 carries for 2,324 (5.1) and 30 TDs, plus merely 24 catches. Zero fumbles. “We saw him hurdle defenders,” a third scout said. “You’ve got to be an athlete to do that. He’s not a home-run hitter but he plays 4.5s. Catches the ball fine. Only real concern is he’s not very smart, but he works really hard to try to overcome it. I’d take him in the fifth, no questions asked.” From St. Louis. Older brother Maurice Alexander was an NFL safety from 2014-’19. “Just a straight-line guy that ran between the tackles,” a fourth scout said. “I thought he hurt the team. He ran hard, but the small back (Blake Corum) was the one that made plays. He didn’t run (the 40). Buyer beware.”
12. TY CHANDLER, North Carolina (5-11, 203, 4.49, 4-5): Played four years (655 was his rushing high in ’19) at Tennessee before transferring to Chapel Hill for his last season. “He had to go to North Carolina to find production,” one scout said. “But Ty’s a really good back. Early on, he might be more of a third-down type guy.” With RBs Javonte Williams and Michael Carter drafted into the NFL, Chandler filled the breach with a 1,092-yard season. “He’s not as good as Michael Carter,” another scout said of the Jets’ fourth-round draft choice. “Combination runner-receiver. Probably a fourth-round guy.” Finished with 603 carries for 3,138 (5.2) and 26 TDs to go with 73 receptions. “He and Rachaad White are the two most complete backs,” a third scout said. “He’s the most explosive by far. Made a lot of long runs. Catches the ball well. They ran a lot of quarterback draws with Sam Howell and he leads him inside and outside. Decisive.” From Nashville.
13. TY DAVIS-PRICE, Louisiana State (6-0 ½, 219, 4.53, 4-5): Backed up Clyde Edwards-Helaire on the 2019 national title team, split time in ’20 and gained 1,003 yards as the starter in ’21. “He’s a lesser Hassan Haskins,” one scout said. “He’s a big hammer. Runs hard. Strong. Pretty decent feet. Passing game stuff is a little iffy. Maybe early Day 3.” Third-year junior with 379 carries for 1,744 (4.6) and 15 TDs to go with 28 receptions. “He set the (LSU) record for rushing in a game against Florida (287),” a second scout said. “He was 219 at pro day (211 at the combine) and had a solid workout. Caught the ball well. His personality was good. He had some (off-field) issues there but was never kicked off the team.” From Baton Rouge. “As a lower-rated guy he’d have a chance to develop into kind of what Rhamondre Stevenson is (in New England), that level of player,” a third scout said. “He’s a sleeper.”
OTHERS: Abram Smith, Baylor; Kyren Williams, Notre Dame; ZaQuandre White, South Carolina; Tyler Badie, Missouri; Snoop Conner, Mississippi; Tyler Allgeier, Brigham Young; Keaontay Ingram, Southern California; D’Vonte Price, Florida International; Jashaun Corbin, Florida State; Zonovan Knight, North Carolina State; Tyler Goodson, Iowa; Isaih Pacheco, Rutgers; Trestan Ebner, Baylor; Kennedy Brooks, Oklahoma; Max Borghi, Washington State; Bryant Koback, Toledo.
1. CAMERON HEYWARD, Michigan State (5-11, 237, 4.73, 6-7): In high school, he played WR, QB, RB and safety while doing the punting. Came up well short with a solid opportunity to start at RB in 2018. Entered the transfer portal in ’19 but returned as a backup RB for two seasons. Switched to H-back in ’21. “I rejected him off his running back stuff last year,” one scout said. “This year, he played aggressive, he was physical, he had good hands in the pass game. Size will always be his limitation.” Another scout described him as a “hands-catching fullback with a little degree of toughness. He might get drafted.” Finished with 211 carries for 825 (3.9) and five TDs plus 96 receptions. “At the school, they described him as a point guard in a center’s body,” said a third scout. “He doesn’t look that bad but he has a dumpy-looking body. For a fullback he’s got pretty good run skills. What sets him apart is he’s really good in the passing game. If you want a fullback … he’s not a hammer. More of an athlete blocker.” His father was the late RB Craig “Ironhead’ Heyward. His brother, Cameron, is the sensational 5-technique for the Steelers. “He helped himself by changing positions, or they helped him by changing him,” a fourth scout said. “He’s become a really interesting player. He can run the ball, run routes, catch the ball and is a decent blocker. He’s not that old-school fullback, which is good because people don’t use old-school fullbacks.” Wonderlic of 15. From Duluth, Ga.
2. JEREMIAH HALL, Oklahoma (6-1 ½, 239, 4.91, 7): Redshirted in 2017, backed up in ’18 and started 24 of 38 games the past three years. “You’re projecting (to fullback),” said one scout. “You don’t know what kind of a blocker he’ll be. I don’t think he’s a good enough blocker (for fullback). For that, you’ve got to be a really good lead blocker or a dynamic athlete and special-teamer. You might be better off taking a 245-pound linebacker who’s a straight-line guy but runs 4.65, 4.7 and will knock the crap out of you.” Finished with 13 carries for 53 (4.1) and one TD plus 68 receptions. Wonderlic of 26. From Charlotte.
OTHERS: Maxs Tupai, Utah; John Chenal, Wisconsin; Ko Kieft, Minnesota; Clint Ratkovich, Northern Illinois.
Abram Smith, RB, Baylor: Moved from RB to LB in 2019-’20 because of injuries before returning to offense last year and exploding for 1,601 yards (6.2) and 12 TDs. A tough guy with good size (5-11 ½, 213), good speed (4.53) and smarts (Wonderlic of 24). Reminded one scout of a smaller Anthony Dixon because of his position and special-teams ability. Had an excellent Senior Bowl game. “Third-day grades but the temperament, the mentality are positive,” said one personnel man.
Kyren Williams, RB, Notre Dame: Renounced his final two seasons of eligibility after rushing for 1,125 in 2020 and 1,002 in ’21. Also returned punts, averaging 10.8 last year. Then Williams (5-9, 199) ran 4.71 at the combine followed by 4.68 at pro day. “I admire the f--- out of him,” one scout said. “He’s a peanut who is tougher than shoe leather. But he’s 4.7.He’s gonna be a free agent.”
SCOUT TO REMEMBER
Rich Snead: One of the least likely looking football executives in the NFL: trim, soft-spoken and unassuming. A Pacific Ocean surfer even into his later years and hailing from San Gabriel, Calif., Snead got his start scouting in the USFL in 1983. His NFL career spanned 30-plus years, including stints with the Chargers, Raiders, Titans, Rams and Jets. His longest run was as the Titans’ director of player personnel under coach Jeff Fisher and GM Floyd Reese. Snead got to the office about 5:30 a.m., shut his door and watched college and pro tape endlessly. Fisher remembered an argument over a player between Snead and Rams GM Les Snead (no relation) in which he had to separate them. “That was Rich,” said Fisher. “If he believed in something, he believed in it. He did it because he did the work. When he lost respect for a peer was when that guy didn’t do the work. Rich was so loyal. I trusted Rich. He had an opinion, he voiced it and stood behind it.” According to Fisher, Snead died in March 2021 at Franklin, Tenn., of cancer. He was 65.
QUOTE TO NOTE
NFL executive in personnel: “Most of the time, when a kid scores poorly (on the Wonderlic test), it’s because he can’t read. Which opens up a whole store full of issues when it comes to these kids that get pushed forward in school without ever learning anything. Why are these colleges taking them and not giving them the ability … ? How could you leave a four- or five-year school and not be able to read? It’s terrible.”