Like the list but agree with others that Lamar is too low. Of all the recently retired, past their prime QBs, definitely miss Rivers the most. He’s in his own category of fun.
Respectfully, Lamar Jackson should be elevated in your QB rating. Jackson is a running quarterback who’s like a menace to defenses. He can make linebackers and safeties miss in the open field with his incredible speed and agility. Because of this, defenses have to worry about both the run and the pass on every play. This opens up a whole new world of opportunities for the entire offense. And let’s not forget that he’s had multiple seasons where he rushed for over 1,000 yards. That’s something no other quarterback in NFL history has done more than once. At least he’s a top tenner. Just ask Brady.
Respectfully, him and Allen are kinda the same, with Jackson being able to run better and Allen having slightly more success and clutch in the postseason. I think him and Allen should be close to each other on the list, so maybe Jackson around 15 would be good. He'll be top 10 one day tho, that's for sure!
Ok I took a few days to catch my breath. Let me start by saying there are several components that determine greatness. Stats, record, cultural significance all play a part. However the component that HAS TO BE the one that puts you in the rarified air is winning Super Bowls. Marino, Moon, Anderson, Fouts, Allen, Kelly, etc are all great. But they simply can’t be above players like Eli Manning. Now I know the first comment will mention Jim Plunkett. Jim Plunkett was never great, Super Bowl MVP once and never the killer Eli was in the playoffs leading up to the SB wins. I’m sorry you just can’t have a list of the greatest QBs of the SB era with 30% of it made up of QBs who never won a Super Bowl! Allow me to present mine:
Gotta look at it closer later but first thought is Francis will be pissed with his placement. He's the greatest...just ask him.....AR is probably too high...one of the best pure passers ever if not the best ever from 2009-20013 when he would actually throw on time and to receivers that didn't have to be wide open by ten yards. Overall, a top 10 guy has to do better in the playoffs. (Yeah I know his groupies will say it was never his fault at all).
You know is good playoff qb as he has a epa/play of .251, success rate of 50.2%, CPOE of 4.0 and about 58% of playoff start above 75 on espn qbr and only about 10% of start below 50 on espn qbr. Those numbers are not a bad playoff qb. He did have bad playoff games, but everybody has bad playoff games.
Sounds like a bunch of new age mumbo jumbo analytical crap that doesn't indicate if he makes the key plays to win games at the key times. Seattle debacle is one example. Check out the field position the defense set him up with and what he did with it. There were a lot of reasons they lost that game but it all would not have mattered if he put TD's on the board earlier...Just one example. Hey, I'll give credit where credit is due. He did make key plays in the SB run....that unfortunatley was an exception.
Those analytical stats do measure how player plays at key moments. You said as a top 10 guy he should be better in the playoffs, but who can't say Marino, Favre, Peyton Manning, Elway, Brees and Young are that much better than Rodgers. Those QB in the playoff similar to what Rodgers did in the playoffs, some might have slightly better or worse than him. Also, you want to know, key play he make, he is 3 for 3 when trailing under 2 minutes to tie the game. Also he is 1 for 1, under 2 minutes when the game is tied to win the game. He also has zero interecptions in the 4th quarter when the game is within 16 points either way. I can agree he did not play his best in Seattle game. He played bad, but down 3 points under 2 minutes and he tied the game. He also only has two playoff game where the offense failed to score at least 20 points. The only games where he played poorly in the fourth quarter while tied or trailing were the 2020 game against Tampa Bay and the 2021 game against the 49ers.
You make some good fair points. I will say I agree with Favre ahead of him. He took a losing franchise and got it to two SB's...AR took the reigns and got to 1....Personally out of the other QB's you listed I would take all of them ahead of AR...Maybe not Brees who is nowhere near as purely talented of course.
Favre also wasn't afraid to try and win a game and force some balls into tight spots even if it affected his passer rating. AR often times would rather throw it away or take the sack. I'm not talking about his prime years 2009-2011?
No real complaints, but my eyebrows did raise a little when I saw people like Stabler, Anderson and even Stafford on the list (the last has great numbers but also seems a product of his era?). It seems like Joe Theisman, Jim Plunkett and Boomer Esiason should be in the mix before them. Same thing for Joe Namath - I totally agree with the cultural argument you've made, but strip away the whole Broadway Joe persona and he's just Ron Jaworski, isn't he?
Solid point here, Vlad. I definitely incorporated Namath's aura into his inclusion. Felt significant to the evolution of the position and the game. But Theismann/Plunkett/Esiason were right there at the end.
Must admit anything that includes QBs and ratings is uber compelling and this list is indeed compelling. If you are familiar with the extraordinary author, the list and explanations are almost predictable. My one question when this subject is raised like this -- 30 greatest quarterbacks of the Super Bowl era-- ..GREATEST AT WHAT??? Winning Super Bowls? Passing ability? Greatest despite team he played for? Most feared by defenses? and, this is one that fries minds -- Strongest arm? If the ultimate criterion is winning Super Bowls, the answer is a no-brainer, but is that the measure of the individual or the result of combined circumstances? How would the chosen GREATEST do if shackled to a bad team. Think Archie Manning. whose fate is relegated to being the GREATEST sire in the Super Bowl era. List is entertaining as always....but questions such as that lack a definitive component that would give more credibility to the response.
I'm just shaking my head over here. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts.
Can you please explain how you ranked Brees over Rodgers as a football player? Because I genuinely can't figure it out. Rodgers was more efficient, had far greater arm talent, a much better TD/INT ratio (not to mention his precious passer rating), and was flat-out more dominant at his peak.
I know you don't need reminding, but he won a SB (and SB MVP), four MVPs, and played in far tougher weather than Brees. I mean, come on, man.
Besides, opening your defense of your ranking with "If stats are your thing, Rodgers is your quarterback" is such a loser statement by someone with a platform in the media. This whole ranking of Rodgers beneath Brees comes off like you're arguing in bad faith.
I know Rodgers is goofy/narcissistic as hell (and I've got major gripes with him off-the-field, much like you do), but I'd like it if you came off a little more objective here. Brees compiled piles of yardage, but Rodgers was just the better, more feared quarterback. (Not to mention 12 changed the way the position is played far more than Brees did. See Mahomes for further detail.)
I guess all of this is to say that I really don't think you can make a compelling, rational argument for why Brees was a better player than Rodgers. This whole list only serves to make you seem like a 12 hater.
Oh, and I'd appreciate it if you could authentically engage with my comment rather than laughing it off or snarkily replying with something like, "Is that all you've got?!"
I will elaborate my good man! Currently navigating a house with a newborn at the time of your comment. When all three children are snoozing tonight, I’ll #embrace the Rodgers v Brees #debate.
Actually, you know what? Don't bother. I've read enough of your stuff to know you won't be changing your mind and I know myself well enough to know I won't be changing mine.
I understand the merits of the Rodgers/Brees debate, and I won't make you waste your time replying. I just needed to get all of this off of my chest because (as a guy who grew up in northeast WI and has consumed your content since roughly 2011 when you were at the MJS) I've long felt you harbored thinly-veiled resentment for Rodgers (which I can understand, by the way, considering what I know about the guy).
I just think you've often dismissed Rodgers as a player (playoff warts and failures post-2010 included) and I find it asinine (and, frankly, somewhat insulting) that you would rank Brees over him. Oh well.
Enjoy your night and get some sleep, but I've said my piece and don't wish to really go back and forth further. I know what I'll be getting when I read your content, but I needed to say my piece.
We don’t need you to elaborate once your kids are sleeping later. We know where you stand. You have this personal vendetta against 12 and it really hurts your credibility as a journalist.
We all watched for 20 years Rodgers and Brees play the quarterback position and never would any GM in the league have traded Drew Brees for Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers was a far better athlete than Brees and what set him apart was his ability to deliver pin point throws on the run. Brees didn’t have that capability. Please stop lying to yourself. You’re doing yourself a real disservice.
I can see the smoke emanating from your keyboards from here, fellas.
Let's all count to 10 and saddle up at the bar for a healthy debate, eh? It's good to see familiar names fire back, too. Thank you for reading all of these years. These debates are fun because it does feel like we're all arguing at a bar.
Could write much longer than this, of course. But how about 10 random thoughts on this Rodgers vs. Brees debate...
1. Goodness. The "vendetta" argument is tired. Do we write about Aaron Rodgers a lot around here? Sure. He happens to be one of the most popular players in the sport -- there's reader interest -- and I've felt comfortable reporting on him given the sources I've cultivated over the years. One of our first big pieces at Go Long advocated for Brian Gutekunst to trade Rodgers for 3 or 4 first-round picks when he held the team hostage. Wouldn't have been a bad idea in retrospect, eh? https://www.golongtd.com/p/let-the-jordan-love-era-begin-in
2. I believe Rodgers is one of the 10 best quarterbacks to ever play. Hardly a slight. Absolutely loved covering him in my JS days. We used to sit down each year for an extensive 1 on 1, too. Always learned something new. A rare football mind. Would wager you'll find Rodgers lower on the QB lists of others.
3. MVPs. All Pros. Hardware. All of that stuff may drive the rankings for others, but I didn't weigh it that heavily. It's not a 4-0 decision, IMO. Drew Brees finished 2nd in the MVP voting four times (2006, 2009, 2011, 2018). He's right there.
4. Drew Brees led the NFL in passing yards seven times. Rodgers? Zero times.
5. Where were the New Orleans *before* the arrival of Brees? Where were the Packers? Two completely different stratosphere. Brees lifted up a franchise that had two winning seasons the previous 13 years. Rodgers inherited a roster ready to win the Super Bowl. That context means something. One stadium's full of fans with paper bags over their heads. The other stadium is hosting playoff games just about every year.
6. If we were to tier the QBs, I'd probably do something like this: Tier 1 (Brady), Tier 2 (Mahomes, Montana), Tier 3 (Marino, Favre, Manning, Elway), Tier 4 (Brees, Young, Rodgers). Struggled ranking these last three. All are so close.
7. Rodgers' arm was superior to Brees. Not arguing that whatsoever. But having talked to many general managers who'd have the opportunity to choose either Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees, I know for a fact there are several who'd prefer the latter.
8. Brees' game aged like wine. At age 39, 40, 41, he still went 30-8 and (fwiw) was one missed Robey-Coleman DPI away from reaching a second Super Bowl. Even as his body did start to break down in 2020, his Saints were hosting a divisional playoff game vs. Tampa Bay. Rodgers? He went 8-9 in Green Bay, tore his Achilles, then bottomed out at 5-12 at age 41 with the Jets.
9. Which quarterback had better weapons? Jimmy Graham was dynamic but enjoyed only four prime seasons with Brees. He never had a wide receiver on the level of Davante Adams or -- IMO -- even Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings. The Saints' receiving corps in '09, when they won it all, was Marques Colston, Devery Henderson and Robert Meachum.
10. Brees couldn't make the plays on the run that Rodgers did. But nobody in his era played with his elite combination of anticipation and timing. And talk to anyone who ever played on his Saints teams. His day-to-day approach alone took them to a completely new level.
Bonus, 11. One day Aaron Rodgers will return to Lambeau Field for his Packers Hall of Fame induction. The mayor will name a street after him. He'll retire a Packer and everyone will chant "Go Pack Go," etc, etc. His legacy in Green Bay and NFL-wide is cemented. Have never doubted his elite gifts at his peak. But if it's Pro-AR coverage all the time you seek, there are outlets that can supply that. And if anyone believes he is a top 5 quarterback, I'm certainly all ears and can respect your opinion.
Just saw this again and again I say....Best at what? We need to define terms unless this left vagaue so anybody can say anything about anybody and not be concerned about specifics. Best at reading and reacting to defenses? That seems important. Best accuracy short, mediium and long all in one player. That sounds usefull. Best under pressure? Pretty damned important. Strongest arm? Nah, of little value all by itself. Best team leader? Gee what a concept. It is hilarious to see people nix Stabler and rave about Bradshaw or vice versa. They were both great for very different reasons. OK, who is the best football writer on substack? ..... and with Tyler on the list, whom I read with trusty dictionary close by, I can't imagine my earthy Dick and Jane style should even be considered. Have a great season all
No one’s asking for non-stop Rodgers throat goating. His game aged like fine whine those last two MVP years with LaFleur at the helm and when he was tossing the pigskin to prime DA and a bunch of nobody’s. His biggest mark against him was losing back to back years at home with pretty stacked teams built by Brian. He can’t shake those losses-they’re certainly career altering but again, no QB has ever played the position better than he did in that Atlanta divisional game in 2010 championship season. How bout that Super Bowl performance to boot against a nasty Steelers D? How bout the run the table stretch in 2016 when they were dead in the water and he turned in the finest QB performance you’ll ever see to get that team to the NFC championship game-where they had no business being in. You must’ve forgotten that MNF game in Philly where he was throwing seeds all over the place to a rising DA or the throw to Cook in Dallas. I honestly can’t recall any playoff moments from Brees that even come close.
That's why he's a top 10'er! One of the best to ever do it. Not dismissing any of those games. I covered that '16 div round game in Dallas at B/R. One of the most remarkable throws ever. He willed those Packers to the NFCCG. That's probably where we've got our divide. Rodgers' "wow" plays lift asses out of seats and reel in millions of views. Brees was just numbingly consistent. A killer game-in, game-out with some truly terrible defenses as support. It's extremely close. Can see the argument either way.
Nah he’s more like a top 5’er than a backend of a top 10’er. That’s where we disagree. Of all those top passing yard seasons what were Brees records in those seasons? I’ll never forget his teams went 3 straight years of 7-9, I don’t remember Rodgers teams ever doing the same.
You are wildly incorrect on all fronts. As noted, Aaron Rodgers is an all-time great. Would love to explain my reasoning here tonight. Just would rather play with my children than stare at a screen currently.
It’s a list, my friends. No need to get too emotional.
I’ve really developed a deep appreciation for Brees the more I learn via our resident longtime Saints scout Jim Monos, Jimmy Graham and others. It’s obviously a close call.
I've said my piece and don't wish to really go back and forth further. I'm just gunna finish with this: We understand it's a list, Tyler, and we're trying to give you facts and genuine perspective (built over years of consuming your content) in order to illustrate our commentary.
Like I said earlier, my main point is that you cannot in good faith argue Brees was better than Rodgers. (I think Alex said it best when he mentioned "never would any GM in the league have traded Drew Brees for Aaron Rodgers".)
As mentioned previously, I've long felt you harbored faintly-hidden resentment for Rodgers (and that's the conclusion I've come to after having read your work for 14+ years). You can deny it, you can disagree with it, and that's all well and good, but please don't dismiss us like we're some emotional loons (especially considering you told us in a previous comment that there's "no need to get too emotional"). Our argument has merit. You wanna rep for Brees, but (based on all of the history you have with Rodgers and what you've written for years) that's really an absurd take.
-Unlike his contemporary Josh Allen, Jackson doesn’t have the great playoff performances where he was simply outplayed by a slightly better QB. Unlike Dan Marino, he was never simply against a much better team than his. He was at the controls of the league’s best team against beatable opponents twice, and choked both times. He is right now firmly in pre-2006 Peyton Manning territory. He’ll be in the Hall of Fame, but he needs a championship run, or at least another exit that isn’t his fault, to move up the list.
22. Warren Moon.
-After leading the Washington Huskies to a Conference title and a win in the Rose Bowl, Warren Moon….began his pro career as a Canadian Football backup. The league had only two black quarterbacks at the time; both backups(James Harris and Vince Evans). But after taking over for Tom Wilkinson and winning 3 Grey Cups, the Houston Oilers finally called. Moon retired as the NFL’s second leading passer despite having to spend his first 6 seasons in the CFL. The Oilers of the late ‘80’s and early ‘90’s ran through their QB’s arm more than any other franchise. A Dislocated thumb in week 16 of 1990 cost Moon an MVP and a possible 5,000 yard season. Nobody else even topped 4,000 yards that year. Playoff success never came for Moon’s Oilers: Cody Carlson had to start in his place in 1990, they got Elwayed in ‘91, the defense blew a 32 point lead in ‘92, and were Joe Montana’s final playoff victims in ‘93. He spent his next few years having a few good seasons on a few decent teams. We will forever wonder what Moon could have done if he hadn’t had to..you know…begin his pro career as a Canadian Football backup!
23. “The Snake” Ken Stabler
-In 1968 the Raiders spent both their 1st and 2nd round picks on QBs, even though Daryle Lamonica had won AFL MVP the previous season with former AFL MVP George Blanda as his backup. You could never accuse Al Davis of being predictable. The 1st round pick was moved to WR. Ken Stabler was the 2nd rounder, and he would be on the bench until 1973, and remained their starter until 1979(another short career, but not as great as Staubach or Young). When he finally got the call, he was the league’s best from ‘73-’77, leading the Raiders to the AFC championship in each of those years, breaking through in ‘76 for the title. Stabler was traded away after a couple of playoff misses. He crashed and burned with the Oilers and Saints, went bald, destroyed his career stats, got Bum Phillips fired twice, and was kept out of the Hall of Fame until after he died(please retire Mr. Wilson).
24. Bob Greise
-Bob Greise was a playcalling QB during a stretch of time when passing around the league took a nosedive. Greise knew he had the greatest O-Line in history and three solid running backs. His strategy was run, run again, run some more, then throw deep to Paul Warfield. It worked to perfection: literally. As his career went on, his skill position cast changed around, but the startegy remained the same, and while never getting back to the super bowl after the Sea of Hands game, the Dolphins always remained in contention.
25. Philip Rivers
-Rivers had to replace a man who would become number 5 on this list, and played in an AFC featuring three of the top 12. He has great stats, but owns no records, no signature wins. He played for a cheap, seemingly cursed franchise. His great kicker kept choking in the playoffs. If he’d gone to an NFC team, he’d probably have made it to the big game at least once. But he played for the Chargers: Against Brady, and Peyton, and Roethlisberger. And the saddest part of Rivers’ doomed quest is that his best chance to reach the big game was a game where he shouldn’t have played. Rivers gutted through the 2007 AFC championship on a torn ACL, with a very capable backup in Billy Volek on the bench. Norv Turner may have cost the Chargers the AFC title because he didn’t have the sense(heart? guts?) to pull his hobbling quarterback from the game. Rivers may have waited until last week to officially retire in some hope that a team of destiny might need him to finish their championship run, and finally give him the ending his great career should have had. Sadly, it never happened.
26. Matt Ryan
-In the 2006 offseason, the face of the Falcons franchise was given a two year prison sentence. The team crashed and burned the ensuing season, and the head coach embarrassingly resigned and snuck off in the middle of the night. Imagine how Arthur Blank and his marketing team were feeling right then. The franchise easily could have been a last-place laughing stock for the next decade or more. Then came a rookie from Boston College to the rescue. Ryan unanimously won rookie of the year, took the Falcons to the playoffs and restored the franchise to contention in just one season. Matt Ryan REALLY needs to get more credit for the way he pulled this team from the fire. He’ll likely never reach the Hall of Fame thanks to his devastating 4th quarter sacks in the 28-3 meltdown, but his number 2 should never be worn by a Falcon again. They could have been the Browns, but thanks to Ryan, they’re the Falcons.
27. Joe Theismann
-He may be more known today for his gruesome career-ending injury than his actual career, but from 1979-1984 he was one of the NFL’s best. He led a super bowl champion in the strike year of ‘82, where he threw the greatest incompletion in NFL history(and spared us all from having to say the phrase “Super Bowl winning QB David Woodley.)” The ‘83 team was two missed FGs from a perfect regular season, and if not for the disaster in the Super Bowl, he’d likely have a gold jacket. Hell, if the senior committee had given him the 2012 nomination instead of Stabler(hated by sportswriters even as a senior citizen)he’d already be in.
28. Ken Anderson
-Ken Anderson occupies a very unique role for football fans: That of the human measuring stick. He is pretty unanimously viewed as the greatest QB not in the Hall of Fame, and is now judged against all other prospective Hall of Fame QBs. If your career was better than his, you’re in. If it wasn’t your not. Let’s hit the bullet points: Forever labeled as a “system quarterback,” accusations of garbage-time stat-padding, One MVP, a few really good years, plus a few down years, one super bowl appearance and loss thanks in part to sub-par performance from QB. The bar for players from the 70’s has been lowered in recent years(see Carmichal, Harold), so this collateral duty may be turned over soon. If Anderson does make the Hall, this role will be passed to either Boomer Esiason or Donovan McNabb.
29. Matthew Stafford
-Matthew Stafford spent a long time on a franchise who seemed to be even more cursed than the Chargers. The fact that Stafford came from the same high school as the guy who cursed them apparently didn’t help. You know Stafford had bad luck when he topped 5,000 yards and 40 TDs in 2011 and didn’t even make the pro bowl for it. The Lions went 0-3 in the playoffs, but many swore this was a case of a great QB doing the best he could with an impossible franchise to win with, and I will still tell you that him single-handedly dragging the Lions to the playoffs in 2016 was one of the most impressive performances I’ve ever seen. His championship run with the Rams seems to have validated his believers(raises hand). In a couple more years, he might move past the Anderson measuring stick.
30. Joe Namath
-I have to give Namath this spot. Not because I think he was an all-time great. I don’t. But because the NFL as we know it today would not exist without him. Namath was the Super Bowl Era’s first crossover star. The celebrity QB. When he guaranteed a Super Bowl win to press and then delivered, it made the Super Bowl must see TV. The huge ratings? Namath. The giant stadiums? Namath. The world’s biggest pop stars performing for free? Namath. The million dollar deals? Namath. NFL players hosting Saturday Night Live? Namath. Every football player who has ever done a TV commercial owes Namath royalties. At this point, it no longer matters what kind of player Namath was. He made the Super Bowl what it is, and in doing so immortalized himself more than anything he could ever have done on the field.
Just missed the Super Bowl Era: Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Sonny Jurgensen
-It feels instinctual to place Unitas on a best QB list, but if we're only allowed to count '66 and after I don't see how he makes the cut. His MVP season in '67 was followed by choking in a de-facto playoff game vs. the Rams. Then he shredded his elbow in the '68 preseason and was never the same. His tag team win with Earl Morrall in '70 seems more like Peyton in 2015.
-For Starr, take Bob Greise, throw the ball even less and shave off the last seven years of his career. If we could count all 5 titles, he’d be somewhere in the high 20's.
-Jurgensen’s body gave out in ‘71, resulting in Billy Kilmer having the controls for the Over-the-hill gang's playoff runs.
Hard to say Stabler crashed and burned with Oilers and Saints. He led both to best or tied for best record in franchise history, taking Oilers back to playoffs (wild card loss to his old Raiders) -- despite Bum's horrible kill-your-running back offense; and then took Saints to best record and missed the playoffs when another team snuck in during final quarter of final game. All this on surgically-scarred knees and each time despit Bum Phillips' horrific offensive theory (yea, Bum moved to Saints and haunted him further, although they did love country music, a few brews together)
-Elway has always been difficult to rank because his value didn’t show up on the shat sheet until Dan Reeves left town. Universally regarded as among the best by teammates, coaches, opponents, media, and fans. Stats that looked more like Jim McMahon than Marino or Montana. The usual explanation his that Reeves called plays very conservatively due to talent disparity at every position besides QB, and then Elway would pull it out at the end. The Super Bowls were just too big mismatches for that to work. It seems to at up, especially as his stats improved as dramatically as his supporting cast in the 90’s. His repeat titles to close his career warmed our hearts, and put him in the top 10.
11. Brett Favre
-I still remember him as the guy who kept throwing away playoff games and then faking retirement, but from ‘95-98 Favre was the best in the business despite losing Sterling Sharpe forever in the ‘94 finale(if only). He brought a legendary franchise back into contention, left the league as the all-time passing champion, and collected 3 MVPs. I’d have loved to see one last great playoff run. However, unlike Brees or Marino, he has nobody to blame but himself. Hence, he lands just outside the top 10.
12. Ben Roethlisberger
- Would you believe the league went 35 years without giving rookie of the year to a QB. So usually unsuccessful were rookie QBs, when Tommy Maddox went down, Bill Cowher’s first move was to try to call Neil O’Donnell(still a cuss word in Pittsburgh) out of retirement rather than insert Big Ben. The rings came early and the stats came late, while the lack of awards was due to playing at the same time(in the same conference) as two of the top three on this list. Also how can you not love a QB(on-field) whose biggest clutch moment was a tackle.
-Between Bledsoe and Maddox/O’Donnell, we’ve created a parallel universe where Peyton Manning has 13 AFC championships.
13. Terry Bradshaw
-Bradshaw was a late bloomer. Coming out then D-2 LA Tech, Bradshaw’s first two seasons make Troy Aikman’s look smooth. He was below average the next two years. In ‘74 he was benched three times before game-managing the Steel Curtain to their first title. Then in ‘75 the light bulb finally went on. He had a real argument for being the league’s best QB while winning another super bowl. After injuries limited hime the next two years, he won MVP in ‘78, followed by another solid season in ‘79 for two more super bowls. He spent the rest of his career as a solidly top-10 QB on a declining team.
-The Steelers showed the kind of patience that doesn’t exist in the NFL today. In doing so, they got a very good/sometimes great QB who shined bright in the big moments. His ranking might be inflated by the 4 rings, but it is called the “Super Bowl Era” after all.
14. Troy Aikman
-Troy Aikman’s lack of touchdown passes has been a punchline among statheads for years. Casual fans take a quick glance at his TD:INT ratio and assume Aikman was just a game-manager on a loaded team. While the Cowboys may have been loaded, Troy Aikman’s accuracy, decision making, and ability to push downfield were keys in making the Cowboys the 90’s dynasty instead of Steve Young’s bridesmaids. I’m very confident in saying that they weren’t winning the Super Bowl with Steve Buerlein.
15. Kurt Warner
-This might be the strangest career in NFL history. From ‘99-’01, Kurt Warner was the NFL’s best QB by far. From ‘02-’06, he was one of the league’s worst. Then from ‘07-’09 he was one of the league’s best again. I’m actually more impressed by his taking the sad-sack Cardinals franchise to the Super Bowl than his Greatest Show on Turf days(that doesn’t mean I’m not impressed with that though). Someone needs to take a deep dive into the sinkhole that was the middle of his career. If that time had been filled with even average production, he easily cracks the top 5.
16. Fran Tarkenton
-Tarkenton’s legacy to most fans is getting humiliated in the Super Bowl: First by the No-Names, then by the Steel Curtain, and finally by….Ok, someone explain to me why that Raiders defense has no nickname, they had Tatum, Atkinson, Villipiano, Hendricks, and nobody on the marketing team could come up with….Where was I? Oh yeah, Tarkenton. Retired with every passing record in the book. Was also the career rushing leader for QBs. Spent most of his career on as great QB on mediocre teams. Finally got a contender around him. Won an MVP. Shit his pants in the big game three times.
17. Josh Allen
-Josh Allen has had the unfortunate fate of being Patrick Mahomes bridesmaid four times now. In the last three matchups with the Chiefs, Allen has been great, but Mahomes was just better. As of right now, I have him as the best QB to never reach the Super Bowl. Hopefully he can pass that moniker back to the next QB on the list.
18. Dan Fouts
- Dan Fouts looked like a decidedly below-average QB in the five seasons he played before the arrival of Don Coryell. Then after pairing with the aggressive, pass-happy coach of his dreams, Fouts lit the San Diego skies ablaze. After finishing the ‘78 season hot, Fouts broke the single season passing record in 1979, then broke it again in ‘80, then again in ‘81, and was on pace to break it again in ‘82 thanks to the strike. Injuries cut short all-star years in ‘83 and ‘85. His 5 interception meltdown in the 1979 divisional playoff squandered his best chance for the title(They had thrashed the Steelers earlier in the year and the NFC champion was a 9-7 Rams team). In the ensuing years, bad defense and bad weather doomed Air Coryell to be revolutionary AFC runners-up. But put the emphasis on revolutionary.
19. Russell Wilson
-For the sake of his legacy and his Hall of Fame bid, I wish Russell Wilson would throw in the towel and retire already. Let people remember him as the surprise third round pick who left Matt Flynn as just a trivia question, the young scrambler who led the Seahawks to their first super bowl alongside the Legion of Boom, the playmaker who made Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockette into Number 1 wideouts, the moonball launching gunslinger who kept the franchise in contention after the defense gave way to injuries and departures, the leader of the most successful era of the Seattle Seahawks.
20. Jim Kelly
-Jim Kelly really, really, REALLY, did not want to play for the Buffalo Bills. So obviously he was destined to be the most beloved player in the history of the Buffalo Bills. The closest the Bills came to the Super Bowl before Kelly was losing to the Chiefs in the 1966 AFL championship(Be grateful Bills fans. You don’t even want to know what Lombardi’s defense would have done to Jack Kemp.) After a few decent years, Kelly’s no-huddle offense emerged in 1990 and 1991 as the NFL’s deadliest, leading to two super bowls, and while not quite as powerful the next two years, they still reached the super bowl again. However, we now come to those Super Bowls. Kelly had one decent(but not great) performance, and while that is more than Tarkenton, Kelly didn’t sustain regular season production high enough or long enough to jump ahead of the other heartbreak QBs. If Buffalo had signed Steve Christie instead of Tampa Bay in 1990, then Kelly jumps two spots ahead.
-Up until about 2016, this spot was still up for debate. Not anymore, and maybe never again. Now imagine the last 25 years if Bledsoe had slid.
2. Joe Montana
-Thanks to Montana, every coach in the NFL has incorporated at least some aspects of the WCO into their playbook. Now imagine if he didn’t happen to be in LA when Bill Walsh was scouting James Owens.
3. Peyton Manning
-Held the title of Greatest Regular Season QB until finally getting his ring in ‘06. I can only imagine how much Archie hates Mike Vanderjagt.
4. Patrick Mahomes
-I’ll probably never have him at number 1 after losing head-to-head against Brady twice, but he may be number 2 very shortly.
5. Drew Brees
-He never got the playoff choker reputation that Aaron Rodgers has presumably because it was rarely his fault when his team fell short:
‘08,’10,’11,’14-’16: Let down by defense
‘12: Coach suspended
‘17: Miracle at the final bell
‘18: Screwed by the refs
6. Aaron Rodgers
-At the same time, I think that reputation gets overblown. He can reasonably blame the defense in ‘11, ‘16, and ‘20, and Brandon Bostick in ‘14.
7. Dan Marino
-My first QB without a ring, but I can’t blame him. His rookie season, Fulton Walker fumbled two consecutive kickoffs. The ‘84 49ers were maybe the greatest team of the super bowl era(an idea for a list). Blame him for the turnovers in ‘85 or donuting the second half vs. San Diego on ‘94, but I still have the Dolphins getting thrashed in the Super Bowl both times(by two more contenders for greatest team ever). Great as he was, he never had a realistic chance to win it all.
8. Roger Staubach
9. Steve Young
-These guys are remarkably similar. Both were college superstars. Both had short runs after joining the league late. Both joined already successful teams. Both added a rushing threat most QBs didn’t have. Staubach gets ahead of Young due to better postseason performance.
- I want to know why Jim Zorn and Brian Sipe got 2TAP ahead of Staubach. Someone explain it to me.
Obviously this is the QB I knew would elicit maximum pushback -- which is fine! And encouraged!
Everyone can follow their own criteria when it comes to ranking quarterbacks.
I didn't want to get too entranced by rings (see: Aikman) or even MVPs (see: Manning below Marino).
For better or worse, I tried to follow a subjective: "Who changed the position? The sport?" ... "Who was *different*?" ...
And if there's one theme, I tried to look at where a franchise was BEFORE the quarterback arrived. The Bills were mostly an abomination for two decades. The Steelers have been one of the proudest orgs in sports since the 70s. Allen has changed the calculus in Buffalo. Believe it or not, someone else had Allen higher than me in the SB Nation project, too.
Allen feels a touch high, and Jackson a touch low. Pretty good list otherwise
Like the list but agree with others that Lamar is too low. Of all the recently retired, past their prime QBs, definitely miss Rivers the most. He’s in his own category of fun.
Respectfully, Lamar Jackson should be elevated in your QB rating. Jackson is a running quarterback who’s like a menace to defenses. He can make linebackers and safeties miss in the open field with his incredible speed and agility. Because of this, defenses have to worry about both the run and the pass on every play. This opens up a whole new world of opportunities for the entire offense. And let’s not forget that he’s had multiple seasons where he rushed for over 1,000 yards. That’s something no other quarterback in NFL history has done more than once. At least he’s a top tenner. Just ask Brady.
Respectfully, him and Allen are kinda the same, with Jackson being able to run better and Allen having slightly more success and clutch in the postseason. I think him and Allen should be close to each other on the list, so maybe Jackson around 15 would be good. He'll be top 10 one day tho, that's for sure!
Ok I took a few days to catch my breath. Let me start by saying there are several components that determine greatness. Stats, record, cultural significance all play a part. However the component that HAS TO BE the one that puts you in the rarified air is winning Super Bowls. Marino, Moon, Anderson, Fouts, Allen, Kelly, etc are all great. But they simply can’t be above players like Eli Manning. Now I know the first comment will mention Jim Plunkett. Jim Plunkett was never great, Super Bowl MVP once and never the killer Eli was in the playoffs leading up to the SB wins. I’m sorry you just can’t have a list of the greatest QBs of the SB era with 30% of it made up of QBs who never won a Super Bowl! Allow me to present mine:
Brady
Montana
P. Manning
Mahomes
Marino
Farve
Elway
Bradshaw
Staubach
E. Manning
Fouts
Brees
Tarkenton
Namath
Starr
Roethlisberger
Unitas
Young
Rodgers
Simms
Moon
Dawson
Allen
Warner
Kelly
Aikman
Griese
Stafford
Burrow
Wilson
Now, this is a comment.
Hell of a list, Thomas.
And if that's your guiding compass, hard to argue!!
I encourage EVERYONE to fire away with a top 30. ... (Clearly I'm a Rodgers Homer after seeing yours.)
So are more outcome focus person or what. Tell me how many all pros Eli Manning got.
Gotta look at it closer later but first thought is Francis will be pissed with his placement. He's the greatest...just ask him.....AR is probably too high...one of the best pure passers ever if not the best ever from 2009-20013 when he would actually throw on time and to receivers that didn't have to be wide open by ten yards. Overall, a top 10 guy has to do better in the playoffs. (Yeah I know his groupies will say it was never his fault at all).
Of the QBs ranked ahead of him only the top 3 were clearly better overall during the postseason
Yes and his advance stats are better than people realize.
You know is good playoff qb as he has a epa/play of .251, success rate of 50.2%, CPOE of 4.0 and about 58% of playoff start above 75 on espn qbr and only about 10% of start below 50 on espn qbr. Those numbers are not a bad playoff qb. He did have bad playoff games, but everybody has bad playoff games.
Sounds like a bunch of new age mumbo jumbo analytical crap that doesn't indicate if he makes the key plays to win games at the key times. Seattle debacle is one example. Check out the field position the defense set him up with and what he did with it. There were a lot of reasons they lost that game but it all would not have mattered if he put TD's on the board earlier...Just one example. Hey, I'll give credit where credit is due. He did make key plays in the SB run....that unfortunatley was an exception.
Those analytical stats do measure how player plays at key moments. You said as a top 10 guy he should be better in the playoffs, but who can't say Marino, Favre, Peyton Manning, Elway, Brees and Young are that much better than Rodgers. Those QB in the playoff similar to what Rodgers did in the playoffs, some might have slightly better or worse than him. Also, you want to know, key play he make, he is 3 for 3 when trailing under 2 minutes to tie the game. Also he is 1 for 1, under 2 minutes when the game is tied to win the game. He also has zero interecptions in the 4th quarter when the game is within 16 points either way. I can agree he did not play his best in Seattle game. He played bad, but down 3 points under 2 minutes and he tied the game. He also only has two playoff game where the offense failed to score at least 20 points. The only games where he played poorly in the fourth quarter while tied or trailing were the 2020 game against Tampa Bay and the 2021 game against the 49ers.
You make some good fair points. I will say I agree with Favre ahead of him. He took a losing franchise and got it to two SB's...AR took the reigns and got to 1....Personally out of the other QB's you listed I would take all of them ahead of AR...Maybe not Brees who is nowhere near as purely talented of course.
Favre also threw more WTF ints than anyone in the top 10 some of them at the most critical moments
Favre also wasn't afraid to try and win a game and force some balls into tight spots even if it affected his passer rating. AR often times would rather throw it away or take the sack. I'm not talking about his prime years 2009-2011?
No real complaints, but my eyebrows did raise a little when I saw people like Stabler, Anderson and even Stafford on the list (the last has great numbers but also seems a product of his era?). It seems like Joe Theisman, Jim Plunkett and Boomer Esiason should be in the mix before them. Same thing for Joe Namath - I totally agree with the cultural argument you've made, but strip away the whole Broadway Joe persona and he's just Ron Jaworski, isn't he?
Yeah I’d switch Aikman and Stabler’s spots on the list
Solid point here, Vlad. I definitely incorporated Namath's aura into his inclusion. Felt significant to the evolution of the position and the game. But Theismann/Plunkett/Esiason were right there at the end.
You forgot that great Bears QB...wait. Never mind. I'd add a couple to the honorary mention category:
* Bob Griese led the Dolphins to the top of the hill multiple times.
* Ditto Joe Theisman
* Brian Sipe was underrated in Cleveland as was Bert Jones in Baltimore.
Great stuff Tyler especially operating on such little sleep!
Thank you, Bob! It's been a whirlwind seven days. Hopefully writing on the joys of fatherhood soon.
Must admit anything that includes QBs and ratings is uber compelling and this list is indeed compelling. If you are familiar with the extraordinary author, the list and explanations are almost predictable. My one question when this subject is raised like this -- 30 greatest quarterbacks of the Super Bowl era-- ..GREATEST AT WHAT??? Winning Super Bowls? Passing ability? Greatest despite team he played for? Most feared by defenses? and, this is one that fries minds -- Strongest arm? If the ultimate criterion is winning Super Bowls, the answer is a no-brainer, but is that the measure of the individual or the result of combined circumstances? How would the chosen GREATEST do if shackled to a bad team. Think Archie Manning. whose fate is relegated to being the GREATEST sire in the Super Bowl era. List is entertaining as always....but questions such as that lack a definitive component that would give more credibility to the response.
Appreciate it, Frank. Great stuff. I love how passionate people get over lists.
Drew Brees over Rodgers? Good grief, Charlie Brown... You're not doing yourself any favors with the "Ty-Dunne-has-it-out-for-Aaron-Rodgers" narrative.
I think my favorite part of this all is Roj saying I've got Rodgers too high and you saying I've got him too low. Must mean he's slotted just right!
I'm just shaking my head over here. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts.
Can you please explain how you ranked Brees over Rodgers as a football player? Because I genuinely can't figure it out. Rodgers was more efficient, had far greater arm talent, a much better TD/INT ratio (not to mention his precious passer rating), and was flat-out more dominant at his peak.
I know you don't need reminding, but he won a SB (and SB MVP), four MVPs, and played in far tougher weather than Brees. I mean, come on, man.
Besides, opening your defense of your ranking with "If stats are your thing, Rodgers is your quarterback" is such a loser statement by someone with a platform in the media. This whole ranking of Rodgers beneath Brees comes off like you're arguing in bad faith.
I know Rodgers is goofy/narcissistic as hell (and I've got major gripes with him off-the-field, much like you do), but I'd like it if you came off a little more objective here. Brees compiled piles of yardage, but Rodgers was just the better, more feared quarterback. (Not to mention 12 changed the way the position is played far more than Brees did. See Mahomes for further detail.)
I guess all of this is to say that I really don't think you can make a compelling, rational argument for why Brees was a better player than Rodgers. This whole list only serves to make you seem like a 12 hater.
Oh, and I'd appreciate it if you could authentically engage with my comment rather than laughing it off or snarkily replying with something like, "Is that all you've got?!"
I will elaborate my good man! Currently navigating a house with a newborn at the time of your comment. When all three children are snoozing tonight, I’ll #embrace the Rodgers v Brees #debate.
Actually, you know what? Don't bother. I've read enough of your stuff to know you won't be changing your mind and I know myself well enough to know I won't be changing mine.
I understand the merits of the Rodgers/Brees debate, and I won't make you waste your time replying. I just needed to get all of this off of my chest because (as a guy who grew up in northeast WI and has consumed your content since roughly 2011 when you were at the MJS) I've long felt you harbored thinly-veiled resentment for Rodgers (which I can understand, by the way, considering what I know about the guy).
I just think you've often dismissed Rodgers as a player (playoff warts and failures post-2010 included) and I find it asinine (and, frankly, somewhat insulting) that you would rank Brees over him. Oh well.
Enjoy your night and get some sleep, but I've said my piece and don't wish to really go back and forth further. I know what I'll be getting when I read your content, but I needed to say my piece.
Yeah you can’t possibly in good faith make an argument that Brees was a better player than Rodgers
It’s not a close call, Tyler. 4x 1st-team all-pro to 1x 1st-team all-pro.
We don’t need you to elaborate once your kids are sleeping later. We know where you stand. You have this personal vendetta against 12 and it really hurts your credibility as a journalist.
We all watched for 20 years Rodgers and Brees play the quarterback position and never would any GM in the league have traded Drew Brees for Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers was a far better athlete than Brees and what set him apart was his ability to deliver pin point throws on the run. Brees didn’t have that capability. Please stop lying to yourself. You’re doing yourself a real disservice.
I can see the smoke emanating from your keyboards from here, fellas.
Let's all count to 10 and saddle up at the bar for a healthy debate, eh? It's good to see familiar names fire back, too. Thank you for reading all of these years. These debates are fun because it does feel like we're all arguing at a bar.
Could write much longer than this, of course. But how about 10 random thoughts on this Rodgers vs. Brees debate...
1. Goodness. The "vendetta" argument is tired. Do we write about Aaron Rodgers a lot around here? Sure. He happens to be one of the most popular players in the sport -- there's reader interest -- and I've felt comfortable reporting on him given the sources I've cultivated over the years. One of our first big pieces at Go Long advocated for Brian Gutekunst to trade Rodgers for 3 or 4 first-round picks when he held the team hostage. Wouldn't have been a bad idea in retrospect, eh? https://www.golongtd.com/p/let-the-jordan-love-era-begin-in
2. I believe Rodgers is one of the 10 best quarterbacks to ever play. Hardly a slight. Absolutely loved covering him in my JS days. We used to sit down each year for an extensive 1 on 1, too. Always learned something new. A rare football mind. Would wager you'll find Rodgers lower on the QB lists of others.
3. MVPs. All Pros. Hardware. All of that stuff may drive the rankings for others, but I didn't weigh it that heavily. It's not a 4-0 decision, IMO. Drew Brees finished 2nd in the MVP voting four times (2006, 2009, 2011, 2018). He's right there.
4. Drew Brees led the NFL in passing yards seven times. Rodgers? Zero times.
5. Where were the New Orleans *before* the arrival of Brees? Where were the Packers? Two completely different stratosphere. Brees lifted up a franchise that had two winning seasons the previous 13 years. Rodgers inherited a roster ready to win the Super Bowl. That context means something. One stadium's full of fans with paper bags over their heads. The other stadium is hosting playoff games just about every year.
6. If we were to tier the QBs, I'd probably do something like this: Tier 1 (Brady), Tier 2 (Mahomes, Montana), Tier 3 (Marino, Favre, Manning, Elway), Tier 4 (Brees, Young, Rodgers). Struggled ranking these last three. All are so close.
7. Rodgers' arm was superior to Brees. Not arguing that whatsoever. But having talked to many general managers who'd have the opportunity to choose either Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees, I know for a fact there are several who'd prefer the latter.
8. Brees' game aged like wine. At age 39, 40, 41, he still went 30-8 and (fwiw) was one missed Robey-Coleman DPI away from reaching a second Super Bowl. Even as his body did start to break down in 2020, his Saints were hosting a divisional playoff game vs. Tampa Bay. Rodgers? He went 8-9 in Green Bay, tore his Achilles, then bottomed out at 5-12 at age 41 with the Jets.
9. Which quarterback had better weapons? Jimmy Graham was dynamic but enjoyed only four prime seasons with Brees. He never had a wide receiver on the level of Davante Adams or -- IMO -- even Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings. The Saints' receiving corps in '09, when they won it all, was Marques Colston, Devery Henderson and Robert Meachum.
10. Brees couldn't make the plays on the run that Rodgers did. But nobody in his era played with his elite combination of anticipation and timing. And talk to anyone who ever played on his Saints teams. His day-to-day approach alone took them to a completely new level.
Bonus, 11. One day Aaron Rodgers will return to Lambeau Field for his Packers Hall of Fame induction. The mayor will name a street after him. He'll retire a Packer and everyone will chant "Go Pack Go," etc, etc. His legacy in Green Bay and NFL-wide is cemented. Have never doubted his elite gifts at his peak. But if it's Pro-AR coverage all the time you seek, there are outlets that can supply that. And if anyone believes he is a top 5 quarterback, I'm certainly all ears and can respect your opinion.
Just saw this again and again I say....Best at what? We need to define terms unless this left vagaue so anybody can say anything about anybody and not be concerned about specifics. Best at reading and reacting to defenses? That seems important. Best accuracy short, mediium and long all in one player. That sounds usefull. Best under pressure? Pretty damned important. Strongest arm? Nah, of little value all by itself. Best team leader? Gee what a concept. It is hilarious to see people nix Stabler and rave about Bradshaw or vice versa. They were both great for very different reasons. OK, who is the best football writer on substack? ..... and with Tyler on the list, whom I read with trusty dictionary close by, I can't imagine my earthy Dick and Jane style should even be considered. Have a great season all
We’ll let you get back to lecturing us all about how the Schoen/Daboll combo will be taking the league by storm this coming season!
You got it!
No one’s asking for non-stop Rodgers throat goating. His game aged like fine whine those last two MVP years with LaFleur at the helm and when he was tossing the pigskin to prime DA and a bunch of nobody’s. His biggest mark against him was losing back to back years at home with pretty stacked teams built by Brian. He can’t shake those losses-they’re certainly career altering but again, no QB has ever played the position better than he did in that Atlanta divisional game in 2010 championship season. How bout that Super Bowl performance to boot against a nasty Steelers D? How bout the run the table stretch in 2016 when they were dead in the water and he turned in the finest QB performance you’ll ever see to get that team to the NFC championship game-where they had no business being in. You must’ve forgotten that MNF game in Philly where he was throwing seeds all over the place to a rising DA or the throw to Cook in Dallas. I honestly can’t recall any playoff moments from Brees that even come close.
Thanks for playing along 🤝🏻
That's why he's a top 10'er! One of the best to ever do it. Not dismissing any of those games. I covered that '16 div round game in Dallas at B/R. One of the most remarkable throws ever. He willed those Packers to the NFCCG. That's probably where we've got our divide. Rodgers' "wow" plays lift asses out of seats and reel in millions of views. Brees was just numbingly consistent. A killer game-in, game-out with some truly terrible defenses as support. It's extremely close. Can see the argument either way.
Nah he’s more like a top 5’er than a backend of a top 10’er. That’s where we disagree. Of all those top passing yard seasons what were Brees records in those seasons? I’ll never forget his teams went 3 straight years of 7-9, I don’t remember Rodgers teams ever doing the same.
You are wildly incorrect on all fronts. As noted, Aaron Rodgers is an all-time great. Would love to explain my reasoning here tonight. Just would rather play with my children than stare at a screen currently.
It’s a list, my friends. No need to get too emotional.
I’ve really developed a deep appreciation for Brees the more I learn via our resident longtime Saints scout Jim Monos, Jimmy Graham and others. It’s obviously a close call.
More than happy to discuss!
I've said my piece and don't wish to really go back and forth further. I'm just gunna finish with this: We understand it's a list, Tyler, and we're trying to give you facts and genuine perspective (built over years of consuming your content) in order to illustrate our commentary.
Like I said earlier, my main point is that you cannot in good faith argue Brees was better than Rodgers. (I think Alex said it best when he mentioned "never would any GM in the league have traded Drew Brees for Aaron Rodgers".)
As mentioned previously, I've long felt you harbored faintly-hidden resentment for Rodgers (and that's the conclusion I've come to after having read your work for 14+ years). You can deny it, you can disagree with it, and that's all well and good, but please don't dismiss us like we're some emotional loons (especially considering you told us in a previous comment that there's "no need to get too emotional"). Our argument has merit. You wanna rep for Brees, but (based on all of the history you have with Rodgers and what you've written for years) that's really an absurd take.
Aaron Rodgers is an all-time great, but allow me to spend the last 8 years trashing him at every turn
-TD somewhere
But I get it…Brees never went out of his way to say this writer wrote a piece that was a smear attack aimed at furthering his career
Eli Manning not on this list is devious-level trolling.
21. Lamar Jackson
-Unlike his contemporary Josh Allen, Jackson doesn’t have the great playoff performances where he was simply outplayed by a slightly better QB. Unlike Dan Marino, he was never simply against a much better team than his. He was at the controls of the league’s best team against beatable opponents twice, and choked both times. He is right now firmly in pre-2006 Peyton Manning territory. He’ll be in the Hall of Fame, but he needs a championship run, or at least another exit that isn’t his fault, to move up the list.
22. Warren Moon.
-After leading the Washington Huskies to a Conference title and a win in the Rose Bowl, Warren Moon….began his pro career as a Canadian Football backup. The league had only two black quarterbacks at the time; both backups(James Harris and Vince Evans). But after taking over for Tom Wilkinson and winning 3 Grey Cups, the Houston Oilers finally called. Moon retired as the NFL’s second leading passer despite having to spend his first 6 seasons in the CFL. The Oilers of the late ‘80’s and early ‘90’s ran through their QB’s arm more than any other franchise. A Dislocated thumb in week 16 of 1990 cost Moon an MVP and a possible 5,000 yard season. Nobody else even topped 4,000 yards that year. Playoff success never came for Moon’s Oilers: Cody Carlson had to start in his place in 1990, they got Elwayed in ‘91, the defense blew a 32 point lead in ‘92, and were Joe Montana’s final playoff victims in ‘93. He spent his next few years having a few good seasons on a few decent teams. We will forever wonder what Moon could have done if he hadn’t had to..you know…begin his pro career as a Canadian Football backup!
23. “The Snake” Ken Stabler
-In 1968 the Raiders spent both their 1st and 2nd round picks on QBs, even though Daryle Lamonica had won AFL MVP the previous season with former AFL MVP George Blanda as his backup. You could never accuse Al Davis of being predictable. The 1st round pick was moved to WR. Ken Stabler was the 2nd rounder, and he would be on the bench until 1973, and remained their starter until 1979(another short career, but not as great as Staubach or Young). When he finally got the call, he was the league’s best from ‘73-’77, leading the Raiders to the AFC championship in each of those years, breaking through in ‘76 for the title. Stabler was traded away after a couple of playoff misses. He crashed and burned with the Oilers and Saints, went bald, destroyed his career stats, got Bum Phillips fired twice, and was kept out of the Hall of Fame until after he died(please retire Mr. Wilson).
24. Bob Greise
-Bob Greise was a playcalling QB during a stretch of time when passing around the league took a nosedive. Greise knew he had the greatest O-Line in history and three solid running backs. His strategy was run, run again, run some more, then throw deep to Paul Warfield. It worked to perfection: literally. As his career went on, his skill position cast changed around, but the startegy remained the same, and while never getting back to the super bowl after the Sea of Hands game, the Dolphins always remained in contention.
25. Philip Rivers
-Rivers had to replace a man who would become number 5 on this list, and played in an AFC featuring three of the top 12. He has great stats, but owns no records, no signature wins. He played for a cheap, seemingly cursed franchise. His great kicker kept choking in the playoffs. If he’d gone to an NFC team, he’d probably have made it to the big game at least once. But he played for the Chargers: Against Brady, and Peyton, and Roethlisberger. And the saddest part of Rivers’ doomed quest is that his best chance to reach the big game was a game where he shouldn’t have played. Rivers gutted through the 2007 AFC championship on a torn ACL, with a very capable backup in Billy Volek on the bench. Norv Turner may have cost the Chargers the AFC title because he didn’t have the sense(heart? guts?) to pull his hobbling quarterback from the game. Rivers may have waited until last week to officially retire in some hope that a team of destiny might need him to finish their championship run, and finally give him the ending his great career should have had. Sadly, it never happened.
26. Matt Ryan
-In the 2006 offseason, the face of the Falcons franchise was given a two year prison sentence. The team crashed and burned the ensuing season, and the head coach embarrassingly resigned and snuck off in the middle of the night. Imagine how Arthur Blank and his marketing team were feeling right then. The franchise easily could have been a last-place laughing stock for the next decade or more. Then came a rookie from Boston College to the rescue. Ryan unanimously won rookie of the year, took the Falcons to the playoffs and restored the franchise to contention in just one season. Matt Ryan REALLY needs to get more credit for the way he pulled this team from the fire. He’ll likely never reach the Hall of Fame thanks to his devastating 4th quarter sacks in the 28-3 meltdown, but his number 2 should never be worn by a Falcon again. They could have been the Browns, but thanks to Ryan, they’re the Falcons.
27. Joe Theismann
-He may be more known today for his gruesome career-ending injury than his actual career, but from 1979-1984 he was one of the NFL’s best. He led a super bowl champion in the strike year of ‘82, where he threw the greatest incompletion in NFL history(and spared us all from having to say the phrase “Super Bowl winning QB David Woodley.)” The ‘83 team was two missed FGs from a perfect regular season, and if not for the disaster in the Super Bowl, he’d likely have a gold jacket. Hell, if the senior committee had given him the 2012 nomination instead of Stabler(hated by sportswriters even as a senior citizen)he’d already be in.
28. Ken Anderson
-Ken Anderson occupies a very unique role for football fans: That of the human measuring stick. He is pretty unanimously viewed as the greatest QB not in the Hall of Fame, and is now judged against all other prospective Hall of Fame QBs. If your career was better than his, you’re in. If it wasn’t your not. Let’s hit the bullet points: Forever labeled as a “system quarterback,” accusations of garbage-time stat-padding, One MVP, a few really good years, plus a few down years, one super bowl appearance and loss thanks in part to sub-par performance from QB. The bar for players from the 70’s has been lowered in recent years(see Carmichal, Harold), so this collateral duty may be turned over soon. If Anderson does make the Hall, this role will be passed to either Boomer Esiason or Donovan McNabb.
29. Matthew Stafford
-Matthew Stafford spent a long time on a franchise who seemed to be even more cursed than the Chargers. The fact that Stafford came from the same high school as the guy who cursed them apparently didn’t help. You know Stafford had bad luck when he topped 5,000 yards and 40 TDs in 2011 and didn’t even make the pro bowl for it. The Lions went 0-3 in the playoffs, but many swore this was a case of a great QB doing the best he could with an impossible franchise to win with, and I will still tell you that him single-handedly dragging the Lions to the playoffs in 2016 was one of the most impressive performances I’ve ever seen. His championship run with the Rams seems to have validated his believers(raises hand). In a couple more years, he might move past the Anderson measuring stick.
30. Joe Namath
-I have to give Namath this spot. Not because I think he was an all-time great. I don’t. But because the NFL as we know it today would not exist without him. Namath was the Super Bowl Era’s first crossover star. The celebrity QB. When he guaranteed a Super Bowl win to press and then delivered, it made the Super Bowl must see TV. The huge ratings? Namath. The giant stadiums? Namath. The world’s biggest pop stars performing for free? Namath. The million dollar deals? Namath. NFL players hosting Saturday Night Live? Namath. Every football player who has ever done a TV commercial owes Namath royalties. At this point, it no longer matters what kind of player Namath was. He made the Super Bowl what it is, and in doing so immortalized himself more than anything he could ever have done on the field.
Just missed the Super Bowl Era: Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Sonny Jurgensen
-It feels instinctual to place Unitas on a best QB list, but if we're only allowed to count '66 and after I don't see how he makes the cut. His MVP season in '67 was followed by choking in a de-facto playoff game vs. the Rams. Then he shredded his elbow in the '68 preseason and was never the same. His tag team win with Earl Morrall in '70 seems more like Peyton in 2015.
-For Starr, take Bob Greise, throw the ball even less and shave off the last seven years of his career. If we could count all 5 titles, he’d be somewhere in the high 20's.
-Jurgensen’s body gave out in ‘71, resulting in Billy Kilmer having the controls for the Over-the-hill gang's playoff runs.
Hard to say Stabler crashed and burned with Oilers and Saints. He led both to best or tied for best record in franchise history, taking Oilers back to playoffs (wild card loss to his old Raiders) -- despite Bum's horrible kill-your-running back offense; and then took Saints to best record and missed the playoffs when another team snuck in during final quarter of final game. All this on surgically-scarred knees and each time despit Bum Phillips' horrific offensive theory (yea, Bum moved to Saints and haunted him further, although they did love country music, a few brews together)
10. John Elway
-Elway has always been difficult to rank because his value didn’t show up on the shat sheet until Dan Reeves left town. Universally regarded as among the best by teammates, coaches, opponents, media, and fans. Stats that looked more like Jim McMahon than Marino or Montana. The usual explanation his that Reeves called plays very conservatively due to talent disparity at every position besides QB, and then Elway would pull it out at the end. The Super Bowls were just too big mismatches for that to work. It seems to at up, especially as his stats improved as dramatically as his supporting cast in the 90’s. His repeat titles to close his career warmed our hearts, and put him in the top 10.
11. Brett Favre
-I still remember him as the guy who kept throwing away playoff games and then faking retirement, but from ‘95-98 Favre was the best in the business despite losing Sterling Sharpe forever in the ‘94 finale(if only). He brought a legendary franchise back into contention, left the league as the all-time passing champion, and collected 3 MVPs. I’d have loved to see one last great playoff run. However, unlike Brees or Marino, he has nobody to blame but himself. Hence, he lands just outside the top 10.
12. Ben Roethlisberger
- Would you believe the league went 35 years without giving rookie of the year to a QB. So usually unsuccessful were rookie QBs, when Tommy Maddox went down, Bill Cowher’s first move was to try to call Neil O’Donnell(still a cuss word in Pittsburgh) out of retirement rather than insert Big Ben. The rings came early and the stats came late, while the lack of awards was due to playing at the same time(in the same conference) as two of the top three on this list. Also how can you not love a QB(on-field) whose biggest clutch moment was a tackle.
-Between Bledsoe and Maddox/O’Donnell, we’ve created a parallel universe where Peyton Manning has 13 AFC championships.
13. Terry Bradshaw
-Bradshaw was a late bloomer. Coming out then D-2 LA Tech, Bradshaw’s first two seasons make Troy Aikman’s look smooth. He was below average the next two years. In ‘74 he was benched three times before game-managing the Steel Curtain to their first title. Then in ‘75 the light bulb finally went on. He had a real argument for being the league’s best QB while winning another super bowl. After injuries limited hime the next two years, he won MVP in ‘78, followed by another solid season in ‘79 for two more super bowls. He spent the rest of his career as a solidly top-10 QB on a declining team.
-The Steelers showed the kind of patience that doesn’t exist in the NFL today. In doing so, they got a very good/sometimes great QB who shined bright in the big moments. His ranking might be inflated by the 4 rings, but it is called the “Super Bowl Era” after all.
14. Troy Aikman
-Troy Aikman’s lack of touchdown passes has been a punchline among statheads for years. Casual fans take a quick glance at his TD:INT ratio and assume Aikman was just a game-manager on a loaded team. While the Cowboys may have been loaded, Troy Aikman’s accuracy, decision making, and ability to push downfield were keys in making the Cowboys the 90’s dynasty instead of Steve Young’s bridesmaids. I’m very confident in saying that they weren’t winning the Super Bowl with Steve Buerlein.
15. Kurt Warner
-This might be the strangest career in NFL history. From ‘99-’01, Kurt Warner was the NFL’s best QB by far. From ‘02-’06, he was one of the league’s worst. Then from ‘07-’09 he was one of the league’s best again. I’m actually more impressed by his taking the sad-sack Cardinals franchise to the Super Bowl than his Greatest Show on Turf days(that doesn’t mean I’m not impressed with that though). Someone needs to take a deep dive into the sinkhole that was the middle of his career. If that time had been filled with even average production, he easily cracks the top 5.
16. Fran Tarkenton
-Tarkenton’s legacy to most fans is getting humiliated in the Super Bowl: First by the No-Names, then by the Steel Curtain, and finally by….Ok, someone explain to me why that Raiders defense has no nickname, they had Tatum, Atkinson, Villipiano, Hendricks, and nobody on the marketing team could come up with….Where was I? Oh yeah, Tarkenton. Retired with every passing record in the book. Was also the career rushing leader for QBs. Spent most of his career on as great QB on mediocre teams. Finally got a contender around him. Won an MVP. Shit his pants in the big game three times.
17. Josh Allen
-Josh Allen has had the unfortunate fate of being Patrick Mahomes bridesmaid four times now. In the last three matchups with the Chiefs, Allen has been great, but Mahomes was just better. As of right now, I have him as the best QB to never reach the Super Bowl. Hopefully he can pass that moniker back to the next QB on the list.
18. Dan Fouts
- Dan Fouts looked like a decidedly below-average QB in the five seasons he played before the arrival of Don Coryell. Then after pairing with the aggressive, pass-happy coach of his dreams, Fouts lit the San Diego skies ablaze. After finishing the ‘78 season hot, Fouts broke the single season passing record in 1979, then broke it again in ‘80, then again in ‘81, and was on pace to break it again in ‘82 thanks to the strike. Injuries cut short all-star years in ‘83 and ‘85. His 5 interception meltdown in the 1979 divisional playoff squandered his best chance for the title(They had thrashed the Steelers earlier in the year and the NFC champion was a 9-7 Rams team). In the ensuing years, bad defense and bad weather doomed Air Coryell to be revolutionary AFC runners-up. But put the emphasis on revolutionary.
19. Russell Wilson
-For the sake of his legacy and his Hall of Fame bid, I wish Russell Wilson would throw in the towel and retire already. Let people remember him as the surprise third round pick who left Matt Flynn as just a trivia question, the young scrambler who led the Seahawks to their first super bowl alongside the Legion of Boom, the playmaker who made Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockette into Number 1 wideouts, the moonball launching gunslinger who kept the franchise in contention after the defense gave way to injuries and departures, the leader of the most successful era of the Seattle Seahawks.
20. Jim Kelly
-Jim Kelly really, really, REALLY, did not want to play for the Buffalo Bills. So obviously he was destined to be the most beloved player in the history of the Buffalo Bills. The closest the Bills came to the Super Bowl before Kelly was losing to the Chiefs in the 1966 AFL championship(Be grateful Bills fans. You don’t even want to know what Lombardi’s defense would have done to Jack Kemp.) After a few decent years, Kelly’s no-huddle offense emerged in 1990 and 1991 as the NFL’s deadliest, leading to two super bowls, and while not quite as powerful the next two years, they still reached the super bowl again. However, we now come to those Super Bowls. Kelly had one decent(but not great) performance, and while that is more than Tarkenton, Kelly didn’t sustain regular season production high enough or long enough to jump ahead of the other heartbreak QBs. If Buffalo had signed Steve Christie instead of Tampa Bay in 1990, then Kelly jumps two spots ahead.
1. Tom Brady
-Up until about 2016, this spot was still up for debate. Not anymore, and maybe never again. Now imagine the last 25 years if Bledsoe had slid.
2. Joe Montana
-Thanks to Montana, every coach in the NFL has incorporated at least some aspects of the WCO into their playbook. Now imagine if he didn’t happen to be in LA when Bill Walsh was scouting James Owens.
3. Peyton Manning
-Held the title of Greatest Regular Season QB until finally getting his ring in ‘06. I can only imagine how much Archie hates Mike Vanderjagt.
4. Patrick Mahomes
-I’ll probably never have him at number 1 after losing head-to-head against Brady twice, but he may be number 2 very shortly.
5. Drew Brees
-He never got the playoff choker reputation that Aaron Rodgers has presumably because it was rarely his fault when his team fell short:
‘08,’10,’11,’14-’16: Let down by defense
‘12: Coach suspended
‘17: Miracle at the final bell
‘18: Screwed by the refs
6. Aaron Rodgers
-At the same time, I think that reputation gets overblown. He can reasonably blame the defense in ‘11, ‘16, and ‘20, and Brandon Bostick in ‘14.
7. Dan Marino
-My first QB without a ring, but I can’t blame him. His rookie season, Fulton Walker fumbled two consecutive kickoffs. The ‘84 49ers were maybe the greatest team of the super bowl era(an idea for a list). Blame him for the turnovers in ‘85 or donuting the second half vs. San Diego on ‘94, but I still have the Dolphins getting thrashed in the Super Bowl both times(by two more contenders for greatest team ever). Great as he was, he never had a realistic chance to win it all.
8. Roger Staubach
9. Steve Young
-These guys are remarkably similar. Both were college superstars. Both had short runs after joining the league late. Both joined already successful teams. Both added a rushing threat most QBs didn’t have. Staubach gets ahead of Young due to better postseason performance.
- I want to know why Jim Zorn and Brian Sipe got 2TAP ahead of Staubach. Someone explain it to me.
Warren Moon at 22 is disrespectful and Lamar Jackson is more accomplished than Josh Allen so I don't understand that disparity at all
HAH! Aikman at 26 is a complete joke. Below esteemed all-timers like Philip Rivers? Wow. Discredits the whole article
If #rings are of utmost importance than, sure, you'd put Aikman higher.
Putting Josh Allen at 15 ahead of Hall of Famers is just crazy. Maybe he gets there one day but right now? No
Obviously this is the QB I knew would elicit maximum pushback -- which is fine! And encouraged!
Everyone can follow their own criteria when it comes to ranking quarterbacks.
I didn't want to get too entranced by rings (see: Aikman) or even MVPs (see: Manning below Marino).
For better or worse, I tried to follow a subjective: "Who changed the position? The sport?" ... "Who was *different*?" ...
And if there's one theme, I tried to look at where a franchise was BEFORE the quarterback arrived. The Bills were mostly an abomination for two decades. The Steelers have been one of the proudest orgs in sports since the 70s. Allen has changed the calculus in Buffalo. Believe it or not, someone else had Allen higher than me in the SB Nation project, too.